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Author Topic:   Japan
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1548 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 91 of 175 (609208)
03-17-2011 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by 1.61803
03-17-2011 10:40 AM


Look at Chernobyl today.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by 1.61803, posted 03-17-2011 10:40 AM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Rahvin, posted 03-17-2011 2:20 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 93 by 1.61803, posted 03-17-2011 2:41 PM crashfrog has replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 92 of 175 (609211)
03-17-2011 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by crashfrog
03-17-2011 2:04 PM


Isn't it funny how nobody even knows that there are thousands of still-burning coal seam fires, hundreds in the US alone that make city-sized areas uninhabitable...
...but as soon as the word "nuclear" gets brought up, we have a media feeding frenzy, and everybody brings up Chernobyl as if the plant's surrounding area is now a glassed desert right out of a Captain Planet episode?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by crashfrog, posted 03-17-2011 2:04 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1585 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 93 of 175 (609214)
03-17-2011 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by crashfrog
03-17-2011 2:04 PM


pretty
very pretty, now go have a picnic there. I dare you.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 97 by fearandloathing, posted 03-17-2011 2:54 PM 1.61803 has replied
 Message 98 by jar, posted 03-17-2011 2:59 PM 1.61803 has not replied
 Message 112 by crashfrog, posted 03-17-2011 4:03 PM 1.61803 has replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2600
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.8


(1)
Message 94 of 175 (609215)
03-17-2011 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Rahvin
03-17-2011 2:20 PM


Rahvin writes:
Isn't it funny how nobody even knows that there are thousands of still-burning coal seam fires, hundreds in the US alone that make city-sized areas uninhabitable...
...but as soon as the word "nuclear" gets brought up, we have a media feeding frenzy, and everybody brings up Chernobyl as if the plant's surrounding area is now a glassed desert right out of a Captain Planet episode?
Maybe the hysteria should be used against itself. In Message 90 you noted that:
Coal power plants release ash directly into the air that not only causes acid rain but also increases the natural concentration of Uranium and other radioactive elements in coal by several orders of magnitude, such that people living in the so-called "stack shadow" of a plant can ingest radioactive materials and have an increased risk of cancer.
You're more likely to get radiation-induced cancer from a coal power plant than from a nuclear plant.
Use the hysteria! Sound the alarm!
Coal Power is more RADIOACTIVE than Nuclear Power!

- xongsmith, 5.7d

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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 95 of 175 (609216)
03-17-2011 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by 1.61803
03-17-2011 2:41 PM


Re: pretty
Pay my airfare and I'll provide the lunch. I hear the exclusion zone has some great scenery along some of the abandoned roads, great for a bike ride. A picnic would be just fine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by 1.61803, posted 03-17-2011 2:41 PM 1.61803 has not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1585 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 96 of 175 (609218)
03-17-2011 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Rahvin
03-17-2011 12:57 PM


Re: Wrong.
Wrong...Schmong.
None of the diatribes or clever retorts mean diddly. There are multiple nuclear meltdowns in process right now.
All proposed nuclear plants past and present are deemed fail safe. Yet here we are. It is one thing to sit back behind the safety of one's arm chair google-interwebz bubble. Yet quite another to face the realities in the very place were apologist claptrap is superfulous and flat out stupidity, ie. Japanese nuclear meltdown ground zero. I am not convinced any of these so called experts know wtf is going on.
Edited by 1.61803, : No reason given.
Edited by 1.61803, : spelling know.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Rahvin, posted 03-17-2011 12:57 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Rahvin, posted 03-17-2011 3:07 PM 1.61803 has replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4226 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 97 of 175 (609219)
03-17-2011 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by 1.61803
03-17-2011 2:41 PM


Re: pretty
1.61803 writes:
very pretty, now go have a picnic there. I dare you.
You can...you can go visit and see memorial to those who died and to those who put their life on line.
Some people even live in their old houses, although I feel it is crazy to do so. Check out this link, also there is lot of other info about Chernobyl on wiki, just got to verify sources with some of it.
Chernobyl Exclusion Zone - Wikipedia

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by 1.61803, posted 03-17-2011 2:41 PM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 34054
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 98 of 175 (609221)
03-17-2011 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by 1.61803
03-17-2011 2:41 PM


Re: pretty
You can have a picnic there. There are still thousands that work there every day. There are even guided tours of the area. And as I pointed out to you, it is only some small locations within the exclusionary zone that are still showing contamination.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by 1.61803, posted 03-17-2011 2:41 PM 1.61803 has not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1585 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 99 of 175 (609222)
03-17-2011 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by fearandloathing
03-17-2011 2:54 PM


Re: pretty
go ahead. I'll pass. Why your at it go have a swim at Bikini, and perhaps a bit of sushi in Fukashima.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by fearandloathing, posted 03-17-2011 2:54 PM fearandloathing has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by jar, posted 03-17-2011 3:08 PM 1.61803 has replied
 Message 103 by Rahvin, posted 03-17-2011 3:11 PM 1.61803 has not replied
 Message 108 by fearandloathing, posted 03-17-2011 3:24 PM 1.61803 has replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 100 of 175 (609225)
03-17-2011 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by 1.61803
03-17-2011 2:50 PM


Re: Wrong.
Wrong...Schmong.
None of the diatribes or clever retorts mean diddly. There are multiple nuclear meltdowns in process right now.
All proposed nuclear plants past and present are deemed fail safe. Yet here we are. It is one thing to sit back behind the safety of one's arm chair google-interwebz bubble. Yet quite another to face the realities in the very place were apologist claptrap is superfulous and flat out stupidity, ie. Japanese nuclear meltdown ground zero. I am not convinced any of these so called experts now wtf is going on.
I note that you didnt actually respond to a single point of my arguments, and isntead resorted to a vapid "I, with absolutely no relevant personal knowledge or qualification to make any reasoned analysis, believe that trained experts in the field know less than I do." You make spurrious claims withpout backing them up with evidence, as if any engineer would actually claim their design was immune to any and all failure.
I specifically noted earlier in this thread that the Fukushima plant was designed with 7.2-7.3 quakes in mind, not a 9.0, which is orders of magnitude more powerful than any quake experienced in the region historically. What precisely do you think would survive a quake of that magnitude?
You further ignore the example of coal seam fires that cause exclusion zones similar to nuclear meltdowns - and where there is exactly one current (And likely to be two in the end at Fukushima) exclusion zone from a nuclear disaster, there are thousands of hazardous coal seam fires burning even now, the oldest of which has been burning continually for an estimated 6,000 years.
You, sir or madam, have no substantive argument on this subject, and are speaking from a position of ignorance and fear to the absolute exclusion of any hard data.
I'll take that as a concession on all points.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by 1.61803, posted 03-17-2011 2:50 PM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by 1.61803, posted 03-17-2011 3:23 PM Rahvin has replied
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jar
Member
Posts: 34054
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 101 of 175 (609226)
03-17-2011 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by 1.61803
03-17-2011 2:59 PM


Re: pretty
1.61803 writes:
go ahead. I'll pass. Why your at it go have a swim at Bikini, and perhaps a bit of sushi in Fukashima.
I can, of course, see avoiding sushi, it is after all just bait, but why avoid either Fukashima or Bikini?
The 1996 study on Bikini included the following:
quote:
"It is safe to walk on all of the islands...The Advisory Group reaffirmed: although the residual radioactivity on islands in Bikini Atoll is still higher than on other atolls in the Marshall islands, it is not hazardous to health at the levels measured. Indeed, there are many places in the world where people have been living for generations with higher levels of radioactivity from natural sources - such as the geological surroundings and the sun - than there is now on Bikini Atoll...By all internationally agreed scientific and medical criteria...the air, the land surface, the lagoon water and the drinking water are all safe. There is no radiological risk in visiting the lagoon or the islands. The nuclear weapon tests have left practically no cesium in marine life. The cesium deposited in the lagoon was dispersed in the ocean long ago.
"The main radiation risk would be from the food: eating locally grown produce, such as fruit, could add significant radioactivity to the body...Eating coconuts or breadfruit from Bikini Island occasionally would be no cause for concern. But eating many over a long period of time without having taken remedial measures might result in radiation doses higher than internationally agreed safety levels."
Guess what, there is even a resort, fishing and dive operation on Bikini.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by 1.61803, posted 03-17-2011 2:59 PM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by 1.61803, posted 03-17-2011 3:09 PM jar has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1585 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 102 of 175 (609227)
03-17-2011 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by jar
03-17-2011 3:08 PM


Re: pretty
Just dont eat the locally grown food. Right?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by jar, posted 03-17-2011 3:08 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by jar, posted 03-17-2011 3:13 PM 1.61803 has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 103 of 175 (609228)
03-17-2011 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by 1.61803
03-17-2011 2:59 PM


Re: pretty
go ahead. I'll pass. Why your at it go have a swim at Bikini, and perhaps a bit of sushi in Fukashima.
Would it hurt so badly to just do a little research before you start typing?
Radioactive isotopes decay at varying rates. High-level radioactive matter decays relatively quickly, while lower-level actinides can last for millions or billions of years. Basically, the contamination of teh area outside the Chernobyl plant proper has reduced itself significantly through natural processes, including decay and the natural dispersion of the particulate matter.
The reactor core still contains hazardous levels of radioactive material and I wouldn't go into the plant ruins proper even with all of the concrete between me and the reactor, but a picnic within the exclusion zone wouldn't be more than an exotic place for lunch.
Edited by Rahvin, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by 1.61803, posted 03-17-2011 2:59 PM 1.61803 has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34054
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 104 of 175 (609229)
03-17-2011 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by 1.61803
03-17-2011 3:09 PM


Re: pretty
Just don't eat specific local foods over an extended period or in large quantities.
Just as with produce from other areas contaminated by anything such as petroleum, mercury, arsenic ...
See US Superfund sites.
See mercury concentration is sea food.
See shellfish harvesting bans.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by 1.61803, posted 03-17-2011 3:09 PM 1.61803 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Rahvin, posted 03-17-2011 3:13 PM jar has replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 105 of 175 (609230)
03-17-2011 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by jar
03-17-2011 3:13 PM


Re: pretty
See the stack shadow of any coal power plant during normal operation, no crisis or disaster or earthquake or bizarre testing required...
Edited by Rahvin, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by jar, posted 03-17-2011 3:13 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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