Confusing mice with mousetraps

Thanks Crashfrog.Your avatatr, name and posting style match perfectly.

We see the process of weathering in action. We know that this process produces many types of shapes. We see a face in the mountain because we have an in-born ability for face recognition.

If ID is correct could god have designed and created the universe a split second ago with all memories and objects in place as they are? Doesn't the logic of ID permit this?

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We see the process of weathering in action. We know that this process produces many types of shapes. . .

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. . ., some of which can resemble human faces.

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We see a face in the mountain because we have an in-born ability for face recognition.

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Yep, totally agree (after my little edit). Humans instinctually see faces where there are no faces. It is hardwired into our brain. More general pattern recognition occurs through hardwiring as well, but through a different part of the brain than face recognition. This is the problem that ID faces, the instinctual basis for pattern recognition.

And this pattern recognition ability is what plays the IDers wrong when they claim to see ID in living creatures.Thanks for the edit. Sometimes I switch from my normal brief mode to Superbrief and someting gets lostin the translation.edited to add Thanks.This message has been edited by DHA, 03-04-2005 17:07 AM

welcome to the fray. solipsism fits any religion as a last gasp answer.btw if you look you will see there are two kinds of reply buttons: one at the end of all the posts that makes a general reply (like your post) and one at the lower right hand corner of every post that makes a reply specifically to that post (like this one). you can set your preferences to get e-mails for replies to your posts and thus track a conversation interwoven through all the others.you can also use the [peek] button to look at how other have formated or linked things.enjoy.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

Yes, but that would mean that god is a liar.Your statement is a perfect example of why the idea of a god is self-contradicting.

Oh Come Now! How ever would we know? We have but scratched the surface on potential mysteries and scenarios.BEYOND LOGIC!

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"How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives."-- Anne Dillard"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive."
Elbert Hubbard

I think you are right about a major hole at the
heart of ID, but think you may be wrong about what that
hole is.It's not so much that living and non-living things are
radically or fundamentally different, but that there are NO
established criteria for detection of design that stand up
to any scrutiny.Sorry to jump in late on this (I have read through most of the
thread).

What are the similarities beween living and non-living matter?To detect design you need to know something about the designer.

And when you get beyond logic, what will you do when ILLOGIC turns on you and all the rules LOGIC has raised are down? (quote parapharased from Man for All Seasons)

bump

Whats a theist supposed to say? According to your logic, you exist for a miniscule sum of time on a dust speck of a planet in a somewhat rare solar system (so far as logic has currently informed us) within one of a hundred billion galaxies. Despite being so insignificant in the grand scheme of things, you think it better to try and arrive at lifes conclusions without any help from any sort of a Creator whom could exist!What is really odd about the human nature of it all is that were a lone alien species ever to pop into your human world, the chances are that you and the rest of the "logical" minds would probably run to embrace and study such a mathematical unknown!And yet....There exists (in my belief) an unseen spiritual realm of unknown origin and motive around us as we think. The Holy Spirit is there too, and He patiently awaits our acknowledgement and acceptence.Yet humanity, in all of our quirkiness and ill placed arrogance, brushes off any communion with this loving Creator!We would rather peer through our puny telescopes and microscopes that we have invented and attempt to go it alone...bringing our insignificant species into the destiny that WE..somehow...have imagined for ourselves!There is a time for a child to grow up and tie their own shoes, and yet there is alao a time for a son or daughter to realize that truly their old man knew what he was talking about all along!Is a cosmic "old man" so illogical?

Thanks for the reply.We're getting pretty far into the woods as far as the topic is concerned. Maybe a new thread?

All built of the same 'stuff', subject to the
same 'laws' of chemistry and physics ... they kinda
just exist and do what their chemistry demands.Knowing about the designer isn't detecting design. It's
knowing that something was designed.I doubt there IS any way of detecting design 'by inspection'.