|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Discovery Institute loses one | |||||||||||||||||||||||
John Inactive Member |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1365 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
shall we start a thread in links and information? compile the list there?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
John Inactive Member |
Sure. I could spare a little time for this. I think it would be worth the effort and the timing is right.
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1365 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
alright, i've started another thread for it, in l&i: http://EvC Forum: Discovery Institute's "400 Scientist" Roster
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
That assumes that he took a skeptical line and investigated the DI rather than believing whatever representations they made to him. And he would likely be predisposed to believe people presenting themselves as Christians and scientists. Also it's clear from the article that he hadn't considered the theological aspects fully, either.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1427 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
This is part of the problem that I have with the endorsed statement: it is intentionally couched in reasonable terms that most scientists would agree to, while the USE of the list is hardly on the same terms.
Of course people are "skeptical" of the ability to explain "all" mechanisms But being skeptical is a long way from endorsing pseudoscience in the place of working science. we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Monk Member (Idle past 3946 days) Posts: 782 From: Kansas, USA Joined: |
That assumes that he took a skeptical line and investigated the DI rather than believing whatever representations they made to him. And he would likely be predisposed to believe people presenting themselves as Christians and scientists. I'm not sure what "representations" were or were not made. As I posted, with the information currently available on the web site, one can easily form an opinion about the org. If you add to that someone with the credentials Davidson has, then he should have had a good idea about what he was getting into beforehand and should not have become "surprised". Most people are more critical of an organization if they send membership dues. Sure, there are legions of willfully blind donors who support the likes of Benny Hinn. They send in money month after month without question. But I wouldn't put Davidson in that category. Still, there could be scenarios where Davidson joined in good faith only to discover later that his perception of DI was not correct. For example:
These questions are why I think our little project would be interesting. This message has been edited by Monk, Sat, 09-17-2005 11:49 AM
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Monk Member (Idle past 3946 days) Posts: 782 From: Kansas, USA Joined: |
This is part of the problem that I have with the endorsed statement: it is intentionally couched in reasonable terms that most scientists would agree to, while the USE of the list is hardly on the same terms. Of course people are "skeptical" of the ability to explain "all" mechanisms. But being skeptical is a long way from endorsing pseudoscience in the place of working science. Agreed, when the list is used as an endorsement of ID as science, that's wrong. But the first half of the statement:
quote: Begs the question. What to do about this skepticism? It seems to me that ID may be an avenue to explore that skepticism. This message has been edited by Monk, Sat, 09-17-2005 11:50 AM
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
CK Member (Idle past 4149 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: |
quote: But why do you think that? the main people behind ID haven't actually done anything resembling science with the concept in years. It appears they realised it was a busted flush years ago and that when they switched over to the current tactic of "teaching the controversy". I have no problem with exploring design - but the concept of ID seems to have finished as a scientific effort a while back.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Monk Member (Idle past 3946 days) Posts: 782 From: Kansas, USA Joined: |
But why do you think that? The main people behind ID haven't actually done anything resembling science with the concept in years. It appears they realised it was a busted flush years ago and that when they switched over to the current tactic of "teaching the controversy". But the concept of ID seems to have finished as a scientific effort a while back. Well, I prefer to keep the door open on the possibility that a brilliant mind may come along to upturn the whole subject and put something forward that scientists can get their teeth into. It's happened before. Consider the long history of changing scientific viewpoints as a result of new discoveries. If our "Truth in ID" project shows that the 400 list is accurate and these scientist do hold skepticism regarding the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Then ID is the avenue to explore it. Frankly, I'm very interested in their comments. The "teach the controversy" tactic was ill conceived and is beginning to do more harm to the cause than good. I suspect it probably does not represent an acceptable approach by the majority of scientific members. Again, our project may shed insights on this if it is included as a question in the e-mail. This message has been edited by Monk, Sat, 09-17-2005 11:52 AM
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Brad McFall Member (Idle past 5054 days) Posts: 3428 From: Ithaca,NY, USA Joined: |
Hi Monk...
I am waitng too! I have never had a response to my question aired here @eVC as to a possible probabilistic origin to the "movement". If we are constantly being confused about what the "constituents" of an ID 'event'is are we forever confined to Bill Clinton's "is is" place? I hype and hope not.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Monk Member (Idle past 3946 days) Posts: 782 From: Kansas, USA Joined: |
Hi Brad
I have never had a response to my question aired here @eVC as to a possible probabilistic origin to the "movement". Yes, and I doubt that "origin" was solely religious. You know how science abhors leaving questions unanswered. Its an itch that one must attempt to scratch.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Brad McFall Member (Idle past 5054 days) Posts: 3428 From: Ithaca,NY, USA Joined: |
That's what I am suspecting...indeed!!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1427 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
monk, msg 38 writes: But the first half of the statement: Begs the question. Does it? Or does it suggest that there could be other natural mechanisms possible and that they shouldn't be discounted out of hand just because we already have mutation and natural selection? I would not rule out the possibility of other perfectly natural mechanims that would not fall into either a {mutation} or a {natural selection} category. For instance a virus splicing in a section of {alien} DNA in an infected species gives it a changed genome that is NOT due to a mutation. Again, they did not specifically ask for an endorsement of ID in the statement (yet it is still presented as one) all they did was couch skepticism in seductive phraseology. we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1427 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
monk, msg 40 writes: ... and these scientist do hold skepticism regarding the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Then ID is the avenue to explore it. Why? What give ID any better credibility than uncle bob's crank ideas? Let me rephrase that: what gives ID a single element of credibility compared to uncle bob's crank ideas? If evolution shows why people can't fly, and we cannot explain {theoretical event A} by the current theories of evolution, then we can fly??? we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024