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Author Topic:   Intelligent (maybe), but far from perfect
MattS
Inactive Junior Member


Message 1 of 91 (49162)
08-07-2003 3:08 PM


I am new to this forum, but I tend to look at things from a high level. You can bicker about whether this animal, or that biological process, or that organ is likely or not the result of ID. Even though we humans are very complex, and work very well (usually), I can point out any number of serious design flaws that we exhibit.
- For most of human history, and only without recent medical technology, infant mortality was quite high. Who would design something that could reproduce but that whose offspring had a relatively low chance of survival?
- Vital components do not heal to their original state (eyes, teeth, whole limbs)
- Many people have diseases and disorders that have meant certain death if not for recent medical advances (e.g. cancer)
- Vital blood vessels are located precariously close to the surface.
I can go on, but you get the idea. If ID is true, then we might want to rename it SID (somewhat intelligent design), or maybe IFITD (I'll finish it tomorrow design). Maybe we are prototypes - if so I can't wait to see what the final product will look like.

Replies to this message:
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 Message 73 by tcroth01, posted 06-01-2007 3:00 AM MattS has not replied
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Peter
Member (Idle past 1479 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 2 of 91 (50810)
08-18-2003 5:20 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by MattS
08-07-2003 3:08 PM


Perhaps we are just the DV tests and someone is creating
fault logs before going into full production ...

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biglfty
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 91 (50843)
08-18-2003 11:04 AM


what you are saying is that the lack of perfection is evidence against intelligent design. i disagree, if everyone/everything was perfect we would all be the same. is it possible our designer made us to be different thorugh lack of perfections?

Replies to this message:
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MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1393 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 4 of 91 (50846)
08-18-2003 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by biglfty
08-18-2003 11:04 AM


Biglfty,
We've been told that nearly anything can be used as evidence in favor of intelligent design, and we're not sure what would constitute evidence against intelligent design. If even the imperfections in human design support the hypothesis that it was intelligently designed, then what could possibly be offered to falsify the hypothesis?
------------------
En la tierra de ciegos, el tuerto es el Rey.

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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 91 (50864)
08-18-2003 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by MrHambre
08-18-2003 11:27 AM


quote:
we're not sure what would constitute evidence against intelligent design.
A lack of intelligence in the design?
I had a root canal a couple months ago. Hurt like a bitch. My back is spasming right now because I slept on it funny. I wear glasses because my eyesight is shot to hell. My girlfriend is on anti-depressants because of a chemical imbalance she was born with.
Fixing these imperfections wouldn't make us "all the same" (as in biglfty's post) but would sure lend a bit more credence to the idea that we were put together with some sort of plan.
[This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 08-18-2003]

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 6 of 91 (50865)
08-18-2003 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Dan Carroll
08-18-2003 1:03 PM


Yeah, how about a spine that's a little more stable than a stack of quarters? A skull actually built to stand on top of the neck? Female legs that are straight enough not to cause major knee problems?
Not to mention the frailty of age. Perfectly consistent with evolution but makes no sense in a creationist framework.

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Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 7 of 91 (50868)
08-18-2003 1:43 PM


I had a few major operations on my left knee due to a football injury. Both my anterior and posterior cruciate ligaments were ruptured, the anterior was replaced with a graft from my pateller tendon and the posterior was replaced by a graft from a corpse. The surgeon told me that the 'new' cruciate ligaments are 30% stronger that the original ones. What I want to know is why God didnt make the cruciate ligaments out of the stronger stuff in the first place? The knee feels as good as new so I dont see the problem for ths big guy in the sky.
Brian

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MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1393 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 8 of 91 (50869)
08-18-2003 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Brian
08-18-2003 1:43 PM


You people are so quick to dismiss teleology simply because it can't be detected. You're assuming that the Intelligent Designer wanted stable, enduring, optimal creations. Isn't it obvious that he intended you to be gimps?
------------------
En la tierra de ciegos, el tuerto es el Rey.
[This message has been edited by MrHambre, 08-18-2003]

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Asgara
Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 9 of 91 (50879)
08-18-2003 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by MrHambre
08-18-2003 1:55 PM


Hi MrH,
Of course he wanted us to be gimps...who else would they heal at all those revival meetings. Sounds like an intelligent plan to me.
------------------
Asgara
"An unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates via Plato

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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 91 (50885)
08-18-2003 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by MrHambre
08-18-2003 1:55 PM


quote:
You people are so quick to dismiss teleology simply because it can't be detected. You're assuming that the Intelligent Designer wanted stable, enduring, optimal creations. Isn't it obvious that he intended you to be gimps?
If he did, then the next person who says anything about God's great love for mankind gets a punch in the throat. Honest.
Regardless, I'm quick to dismiss a lot of things that can't be detected. Do you believe in Zeus? Thor? Anansi?
How about Batman? Why are you so quick to dismiss Batman?

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Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 91 (50975)
08-19-2003 3:50 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Dan Carroll
08-18-2003 3:59 PM


Batman can easily be dismissed because we know that people made Batman. Batman does not make men.
The others are much harder to dismiss because we don't know yet if some guy actually made them up in the past. A sample for the conclusive evidence would be an ancient text that goes: 'I decided that my tribe needs a deity, so starting tomorrow let's make rituals and creeds to worship [insert deity name]'
I wonder.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 12 of 91 (50978)
08-19-2003 4:03 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Andya Primanda
08-19-2003 3:50 AM


Batman can easily be dismissed because we know that people made Batman.
Not so. The guy at DC Comics was simply expounding and elaborating on the inner "Batman conciousness" that we all possess - the deep, abiding need we all have that can only be fulfilled by loving, personal relationship with Batman.

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Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6475 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 13 of 91 (50984)
08-19-2003 4:20 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Dan Carroll
08-18-2003 3:59 PM


quote:
How about Batman? Why are you so quick to dismiss Batman?
...because batman cant dance!...the batoozie...plueez!...now godzilla..he could dance..and he is just as real as all of the evidence for ID

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Peter
Member (Idle past 1479 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 14 of 91 (51012)
08-19-2003 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by crashfrog
08-19-2003 4:03 AM


Batman ...
.... and I thought the guys at DC (Bill Finger & Bob Kane)
were just ripping off the shadow

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Peter
Member (Idle past 1479 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 15 of 91 (51014)
08-19-2003 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Andya Primanda
08-19-2003 3:50 AM


Suppose some-one found a few pages of Detective Comics
#47 about 1000 years from now....
We know that the text/pictures was made by someone, but
how do we tell if the content is made-up or not?
The problem with teleology is, effectively, the same as the
common ancestor Vs common design argument. Either could
have happened, but the latter can have no direct evidence.
I can design anything anyway I want -- that the 'design' of
life on earth is somewhat shoddy is OK within an ID worldview,
since all that they are sayin is 'It was designed, see!!'
{Imagine that was Edward G. Robinson saying that }

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