Research for a book - Survey of various dating methods

May I ask what prehistoric events you're talking about the dating of? It seems to me that the only prehistoric events that we know of are those brought to us through scientific investigations and would have little, if any, connection to Genesis or the Bible. Are you suggesting that the writers of Genesis knew about the ice age?I'd be hard put to believe that even an ice age could have significant influence on a culture that didn't arise for five thousand years following its abatement. People just don't seem to have that long of an outlook: not seeing the forest for the trees, as it were.The Germanic legends about the demise of ancient ice kingdoms don't need to refer back to the Ice Age to be understood, but to last winter. And flood myths don't need to be based on ancestral memories of the catastrophic filling of the Black Sea through the Bosporus three thousand years in ones past when the spring floods took out the farm for the last three years running.I'm sure culture would have developed much differently had there not been an Ice Age, but would it do so in anyway we'd be able to quantify? Maybe the Chinese would have been able to populate Europe from the North instead of the Arabians populating it from the South, and Eric Idle would have been singing "I Like Engleses. We only come up to their knees" Or like Tanypteryx's tag line asks "What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings?",

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Tofu cars taste even better than regular cars World's first green truth.

Because I believe Genesis 1-3 to be non-literal and that Adam and Eve were not the first humans in existence, I want to put Genesis 1-3 into its proper cultural context. Basically, I want to compare the biblical creation account with the cultures and religious beliefs of Egypt and Sumer.In order to do this properly, though, I want to explore where the peoples of Egypt and Sumer came from and what their religious symbolism has its roots in. I've already mentioned part of what I plan to use as evidence for that -- that the peoples of ancient Egypt and Sumer used astronomical symbolism in their creation mythology to represent actual places on earth, and were therefore explaining in symbolic terms where they had come from -- but I still need to explore things like climate change since the end of the Ice Age, changes in the environment (like the change from savannah to desert in Egypt around roughly 3500 BC; this has ramifications for understanding their theology regarding the afterlife), prehistoric megalithic sites used by the precursors of these two countries (such as Nabta Playa), and so on.As far as the writers of Genesis knowing about the ice age, no, they concerned themselves with mainly Sumer and its moral relativism (mainly espoused through the worship of the goddess Inanna, equivalent to the Babylonian Ishtar). But nevertheless, odd and unexplained cultural artifacts pop up in various places in the bible that we would need to look to the cultural context to understand. References to the constellations in Job 38:31-32, for instance.Damon

(1) You should mention dendrochronology, for two reasons. (Or three --- I don't know how extensively dendrochronology is used by archaeologists as such. Coyote would know.)(a) It is used to calibrate radiocarbon dating.(b) The uncalibrated radiocarbon data agrees well with dendrochronology, thus providing an independent check.(2) Varves. These would not be of any use to archaeologists directly unless someone dropped an artifact in a proglacial lake. However, because they contain organic matter, they can be used as an independent check on radiometric dating.(3) Ice cores. Again, there is little direct use for these in archaeology. However, where layers of snow are deposited annually, the thickness of the annual layers vary with temperature just like the thickness of tree-rings, providing an independent check on dendrochronology.(4) Racemization dating. This doesn't actually work except in very specific circumstances none of which are likely to be present in an archaeological dig. However, it may be useful for your didactic purpose of showing things that don't work as a contrast to things that do.(5) Fluoride dating. I don't know much about this, but I do recall that it was the first clue that something was wrong with "Piltdown Man". It might be worth looking into.

Thank you, I should be most grateful.I shall shortly have to write my own survey of dating methods, and it would be nice to have some data like that.---This leaves my other question for Coyote --- do archaeologists ever use igneous rocks for dating purposes?

Worship of a goddess does not a moral relativist make.Take a look, for example, at the language used in the epilogue of the stele of Hammurabi (you should read the prologue as well, but as it's all very similar, I'll just quote the epilogue). NB: the paragraph breaks are mine, otherwise I have not altered the text as found HERE Technologies | The world's #1 location platform. Now, we can find in this, implicitly and explicitly, a view which is very far from moral relativism. Hammurabi thinks that:* He has been installed as king and therefore lawgiver by the will of the gods.* Shamash, "the great judge of heaven and earth" has "conferred right (or law)" on him.* Hence Hamurabi describes his laws not as useful or convenient or practical, but as "righteous" and "pious".* He asserts that his "wisdom" is superior to that of others ("there is no wisdom like unto mine") and therefore says that by reading his stele a man can "find out what is just". This is hardly the language of a moral relativist.* He intends the laws that he has made to stand for all time. The only concession he makes to the possibility that the mores of the Babylonians might change is to call down the curse of the gods on anyone who thinks of trying it.In short, he has the same essential theory of the nature of morality as did the ancient Hebrews. Morality is known to the gods (Shamash for the Babylonians, Yahweh for the Jews) was revealed by the gods to wise lawgivers (Hammurabi for the Babylonians, Moses for the Jews) and through them to their countrymen generally; and was unchanging and objectively correct.The beef of the Hebrews with the Babylonians was that they had different gods and a different moral code; but not that the Babylonians thought that it was OK for different people to have different gods and moral codes, 'cos they didn't.(There was also, of course, the fact that the Babylonians oppressed the heck out of the Jews. Their quarrel was not merely on an abstract plane over a question of principle.)

Doc - Renne, et al., Science, v277, pp1279-1280 (1997). It should be free online if you register at Science | AAASThe abstract:

I clearly underestimated the degree of my confusion.

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Tofu cars taste even better than regular cars World's first green truth.

Thank you.

Not in the type of archaeology I do.My style of archaeology relies mostly on radiocarbon dating because we have plenty of the materials required for that method.Some of my colleagues in other areas may use igneous rocks, but I would think that is more for paleontology than archaeology.

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Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

quote:

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* Astronomical dating is unreliable

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I don't think "unreliable" is the word I'd use. Astronomical events happen at times that can be calculated reasonable well. But when the linkage of those events to historical happenings to happenings on earth is speculative, then astronomical dating is pure bogosity.For example, we can determine the time when Halley observed Halley's comet because we can couple the appearance of the comet to the historical event. Usually we cannot do that.

Your list should look like something this, and I've added a few items, but there are probably many more:

• Radiometric dating
  • Radiocarbon dating
  • Potassium/argon
  • Uranium/lead
  • ...many, many more...
• Year counting methods
  • Tree rings (dendrochronology)
  • Varves (sedimentary layers)
  • Ice cores
• Astronomical dating
  • Observation of astronomical events at known times in history
    • Eclipses
    • Comets
    • Meteors
    • Sun spots
    • Nova and supernova
  • Dating of meteor, asteroid and comet collisions
  • Dating of material from meteors, asteroids of comets that have fallen to Earth
  • Dating of meteors, asteroids, comets, moons, and planets in space
• Milankovitch cycles

--Percy

To those that recommended the various dating methods I could cover in my book, thank you!! True, but that wasn't the problem.Unfortunately, I don't have the reference handy for this, but I remember reading that Inanna was described in one of the ancient literary cycles as doing whatever she wished, whether it be good or evil. I assumed that by association, her worshippers would do the same. Also, there was apparently a magical ritual that her worshippers used to symbolically assume different, normally undesirable traits. Anything from gender swapping to a disease was up for grabs, as I recall.I recently packed away some of my books as I'm looking for a new place to live, and I accidentally packed that one without remembering that I needed it for the book. Oops. As soon as I can dig that back out, I'll post the reference. True, but note that this is long after the biblical Garden of Eden existed. And remember that even for the Israelites, there were times when they were righteous and times that they were wicked. I'm assuming the same would easily hold true for Babylon. And also, it appears that the Mosaic Law was based in part on the law code of Hammurabi, and that would only happen as a result of recognizing the inherent goodness of that cultural source.Yes, I actually want to give a balanced view of Egypt and Sumer/Babylon in my book, as you can see above. DamonEdited by damoncasale, : No reason given.Edited by damoncasale, : No reason given.Edited by damoncasale, : Because it's early and my brain took a little while to percolate.

So very much like some of the descriptions of the God in the Bible.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

I searched the corpus of Sumerian literature for No webpage found at provided URL: references to Inana. Isn't the Internet wonderful? But surely if Genesis contains such allegorical meanings as you suppose, they relate to the time when Genesis was written, not to the time when it was set.

This is a direct reference to Isaiah 10:5. "Oh, Assyrian, the rod of my (god's) anger, and the staff in their hand is my indignation (against Judah)."Regarding the online Inana texts, it looks like what I'm remembering is from the Hymn to Inana (C): Etc. Also, I remembered a bit more of the original reference. Apparently Inana had ceremonial worshippers called "pili-pili" whose role it was to do ecstatic dances and gyrations, symbolically assuming physical deformities, becoming transgendered, etc. The search mechanism on the site is hard to use. I did find very basic references using "pilipili" as a search term, but it would be helpful if I could see the surrounding context.To sum up, though, just as later parts of the bible use a polemical approach to describe ethically distasteful practices of the surrounding nations, I propose that Genesis 1-3 is simply doing the same thing, using a different literary style than what is used later on in the bible, but one common to the ancient Near East at that time. The early parts of Genesis were apparently originally written as a series of clay tablets, around the time that it was set. There are literary artifacts, called toledoth, marking the divisions between these original sections. They're normally translated as "these are the generations of (X)" in the text itself, and each of these marks the end of its respective section. Parallels to this can be found in the genealogical and literary tablets found at Ebla and Mari.Home - Associates for Biblical ResearchApologies for the blatantly apologetic article (pun not intended). I'm not able to locate an online reference to the book this article quotes, or a sample tablet translation from Ebla. I do have two books on the excavation of Ebla on my bookshelf, but neither one of them give a decent-sized sampling of tablet translations, unfortunately.DamonEdited by damoncasale, : No reason given.