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Author Topic:   Articulating In The Debates; The Proper And The Improper.
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 106 of 192 (591754)
11-15-2010 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by crashfrog
11-15-2010 6:41 PM


Re: Profanity And Racism
quote:
Apparently the difference is how many oldsters I have to listen complain about it.
Good non answer.
quote:
And other members, including myself, have made it clear that they would prefer to continue to use profanity.
That puts us all at loggerheads, I'm afraid. But for some reason you seem to believe that Buz's preference should win out, but the only reason you have for that belief is that Buz's preference is one that you share.
I didn't say that or imply that. I said he had a right to ask. It is your choice whether you comply or not.
As I said in the post: When people don't wish to comply with a personal request, the requester just has to decide which is more important. It's easiest to just consider the source, move on, and address only the portions of the post that are on topic.
quote:
Insisting that your preferences are the only ones that matter is the definition of being childish.
Except that I didn't. Please show me where I insisted that my preferences are the only ones that matter.
ABE: This is a debate board. The point is to pick a side and defend/support it. If presenting or defending my position as "correct" is childish, then all of EvC is acting childish.
Edited by purpledawn, : ABE

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by crashfrog, posted 11-15-2010 6:41 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 107 of 192 (591755)
11-15-2010 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by crashfrog
11-15-2010 6:41 PM


Re: Profanity And Racism
crashfrog writes:
Apparently the difference is how many oldsters I have to listen complain about it.
You don't "have" to listen to anything. You're a smart young whipper-snapper. You can probably figure out how to operate the door.
That's kinda the point being made here. Nobody "has" to read your posts. Personally, I find your posts worth reading. I can't say the same about hooah's.
You have to put something attractive into your posts if you want people to read them. In your case, it's usually knowledge. In my case, it's probably style over substance. In hooah's case, what is it?
Can he afford to chase the customers away?

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by crashfrog, posted 11-15-2010 6:41 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 108 of 192 (591796)
11-16-2010 7:11 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by ringo
11-15-2010 7:15 PM


Re: Profanity And Racism
I thought about the difference of profanity in written form vs verbal.
Hearing profanity is not speaking profanity, but when profanity is written is forces the reader to "speak" the word in their mind.
Frako used the old symbol version of profanity in an off topic post.
What the %&$# #$%" you F#$%&%$# brainless, hairless monkeys
When I read that, I don't "speak" profanity in my mind, I just "say" bleep bleep. Now someone who chooses to speak profanity may fill in the blanks themselves.
This may not ring true for all, but it was an interesting thought.
Bottom line, the one doesn't wish to read profanity needs to decide if they will continue to read posts by members prone to profanity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by ringo, posted 11-15-2010 7:15 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 109 of 192 (591914)
11-17-2010 3:14 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by hooah212002
11-15-2010 5:36 PM


Reason for the Choice
Here are two of your posts. One uses the words "means nothing" and the other uses the "f-all" which you have agreed is the same as means "nothing".
The first one is interesting because your opponent didn't know what the "f-all" meant just as I didn't and English is my first and only language. This obviously created a communication problem. You had to explain with more force by "yelling" in Message 147. As your opponent put it, he doesn't speak potty mouth.
Hooah212002 writes:
You should know very well (since you are such a seasoned public debater in the evo-creo arena) that evolution has fuck all to do with origins. Message 129
What is also interesting about the above post is that even Admin stated in a message to your opponent that you were stating in the strongest terms possible.
Admin writes:
Hooah was stating in the strongest terms possible that evolution has nothing to do with origins, yet you concluded he was stating the opposite. Message 152
Slang kinda got in the way of communication.
Here is the second post.
Hooah212002 writes:
"It looks designed" means nothing because guess what? It doesn't look designed to me. Message 213
So why the switch in vocabulary? Why didn't you use the "f-all" slang in the second post?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by hooah212002, posted 11-15-2010 5:36 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Straggler, posted 11-17-2010 8:05 AM purpledawn has replied
 Message 111 by frako, posted 11-17-2010 9:21 AM purpledawn has replied
 Message 115 by hooah212002, posted 11-17-2010 10:12 AM purpledawn has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 110 of 192 (591926)
11-17-2010 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by purpledawn
11-17-2010 3:14 AM


Re: Reason for the Choice
PD writes:
The first one is interesting because your opponent didn't know what the "f-all" meant just as I didn't and English is my first and only language.
Seriously?
You had no idea what "fuck all" means?
Do you live in a convent on the top of a mountain surrounded by a lake of fire?
I am just mystified as to how you could have passed through life without ever having come across this phrase somewhere.
Even if only previously at EvC.........

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by purpledawn, posted 11-17-2010 3:14 AM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by purpledawn, posted 11-17-2010 9:49 AM Straggler has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 111 of 192 (591941)
11-17-2010 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by purpledawn
11-17-2010 3:14 AM


Re: Reason for the Choice
I seriusly think you should invite some serbs and bosinans here they would teach you how profanity is used in excess.
Edited by frako, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by purpledawn, posted 11-17-2010 3:14 AM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by purpledawn, posted 11-17-2010 10:00 AM frako has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 112 of 192 (591944)
11-17-2010 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by Straggler
11-17-2010 8:05 AM


Re: Reason for the Choice
quote:
Seriously?
You had no idea what "fuck all" means?
Do you live in a convent on the top of a mountain surrounded by a lake of fire?
I am just mystified as to how you could have passed through life without ever having come across this phrase somewhere.
Even if only previously at EvC.........
Nope. As I stated in Message 91, "jack shit" is the more common expression in my area and the people I encounter, but overall I don't encounter that much profanity in my daily life. I see more here at EvC than I hear in my daily life.
I assumed it meant "nothing" or something to that effect by the usage in the sentence and from what I know about Hooah's previous thoughts concerning the Bible, but that was only an assumption. If I'm going to comment on it, I wanted to know what he meant by it.
I don't participate on the science side except for A&I and the people prone to profanity aren't usually my opponents on the religious side. As an Admin, I scan for inflammatory tones between members and then look for the source of the inflammation. I can usually tell whether the strong language is aimed at the person as opposed to the usage I've quoted. I don't have to know what it means to see that the profanity itself wasn't aimed at the opponent.
Profanity isn't necessarily a staple in everyone's life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Straggler, posted 11-17-2010 8:05 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Straggler, posted 11-17-2010 10:11 AM purpledawn has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 113 of 192 (591945)
11-17-2010 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by frako
11-17-2010 9:21 AM


Re: Reason for the Choice
quote:
I seriusly think you should invite some serbs and bosinans here they would teach you how profanity is used in excess.
That might have been humorous if it had anything to do with my position or what I was asking.
I'm not talking about excessive profanity. Do you think I am?
My point is that EvC is a mixed crowd and people tend to refrain from strong profanity in mixed company. The "f" word is usually considered to be one that is objectionable in mixed company no matter how it's used.
When one goes into a comedy house here in the US, it is usually understood that profanity could be part of the show. The customer makes the choice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by frako, posted 11-17-2010 9:21 AM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by frako, posted 11-17-2010 7:09 PM purpledawn has seen this message but not replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 114 of 192 (591950)
11-17-2010 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by purpledawn
11-17-2010 9:49 AM


Re: Reason for the Choice
PD writes:
Profanity isn't necessarily a staple in everyone's life.
Personally I think a piece of well placed profanity adds a certain je ne sais quoi in the right circumstances.
Here is wiki on profanity. It seems that if discussion with Buz can be correctly described as "painful" then swearing may be justified on pain relief grounds
Wiki writes:
Scientific research into swearing:
Swearing and cursing are modes of speech existing in all human languages, and they perform certain functions that are the object of scientific research. Functionally similar behaviour can also be observed in chimpanzees.[6] Interestingly, the Bible with its talk about men who "eat their own dung, and drink their own piss" is far from the oldest surviving text containing strong language, as even the oldest traces of human writing include swear words.[6] One study found that swearing is not merely a common reaction to pain — it actually functions as a pain reliever, leading one psychologist to state: "I would advise people, if they hurt themselves, to swear".[7] However, overuse of swear words tends to diminish their beneficial effect.[7] Linguistic research has also shown that the physiological reactions of individuals who are proud of their education are similar between exposure to obscene words and exposure to bad grammar.[6] Swearing is a widespread but underappreciated anger management technique. Wiki on profanity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by purpledawn, posted 11-17-2010 9:49 AM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by purpledawn, posted 11-17-2010 8:02 PM Straggler has not replied
 Message 123 by Buzsaw, posted 11-17-2010 8:51 PM Straggler has not replied
 Message 131 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-19-2010 3:14 PM Straggler has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 115 of 192 (591951)
11-17-2010 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by purpledawn
11-17-2010 3:14 AM


Re: Reason for the Choice
This obviously created a communication problem. You had to explain with more force by "yelling" in Message 147. As your opponent put it, he doesn't speak potty mouth.
DB has a communication problem with anyone who isn't a creationist, so I highly doubt my usage of fuck all was the source of miscommunication.
Slang kinda got in the way of communication.
No it didn't. DB just chose not to respond because, like you, he/she is offended by and/or has a problem with the word fuck. No sweat off my nuts. "I don't speak potty mouth", to me, means "I'm a fucking prissy hoitey toitey goody two shoes and won't respond to gutter language" not "I don't know what that phrase means".
So why the switch in vocabulary? Why didn't you use the "f-all" slang in the second post?
Uhh...because I didn't feel like it? Why do you choose certain words where a synonym would work exactly the same? Why does anyone? You are seriously the first person I have ever met that claims to not know what fuck all means, so I had no reason to not use the phrase without defining it.

"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by purpledawn, posted 11-17-2010 3:14 AM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Panda, posted 11-17-2010 10:24 AM hooah212002 has replied
 Message 120 by purpledawn, posted 11-17-2010 8:16 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 3713 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 116 of 192 (591955)
11-17-2010 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by hooah212002
11-17-2010 10:12 AM


Re: Reason for the Choice
hooah212002 writes:
"I don't speak potty mouth", to me, means "I'm a fucking prissy hoitey toitey goody two shoes and won't respond to gutter language" not "I don't know what that phrase means".
In the case of DB, it means:
"I don't understand anything that was written but I recognise a swear word, so I'll pretend to take the moral high ground.
Not addressing the point raised removes the need for comprehension.
That means I can avoid people noticing that I can barely understand written english."
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by hooah212002, posted 11-17-2010 10:12 AM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by hooah212002, posted 11-17-2010 10:25 AM Panda has seen this message but not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 117 of 192 (591956)
11-17-2010 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by Panda
11-17-2010 10:24 AM


Re: Reason for the Choice
That works too.

"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Panda, posted 11-17-2010 10:24 AM Panda has seen this message but not replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 118 of 192 (591968)
11-17-2010 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by purpledawn
11-17-2010 10:00 AM


Re: Reason for the Choice
quote:I seriusly think you should invite some serbs and bosinans here they would teach you how profanity is used in excess.
That might have been humorous if it had anything to do with my position or what I was asking.
I'm not talking about excessive profanity. Do you think I am?
My point is that EvC is a mixed crowd and people tend to refrain from strong profanity in mixed company. The "f" word is usually considered to be one that is objectionable in mixed company no matter how it's used.
When one goes into a comedy house here in the US, it is usually understood that profanity could be part of the show. The customer makes the choice.
Well i do think some restrain is good it is after all a public forum though chensorship is always bad because once the ball gets rolling it is hard to stop.
I get some american channels on my digital, and i usualy get stressed the fudge out cause half of the film is censored and cut out. We made it simple movies that have questonable content come after 20:00 and you have a red triangle in the top left corner that tells you what age is apropriate to watch the film, if you dont care about such things you can let your children watch and enyoy it yourself. I grew up arround movie violence profane words and i turned out alright.
Though im biast cause most slovenians HATE censorship our national anthem was written by a guy 200 years ago when we where still under austria and it was censored when Preern tried to publish it.
The vintage, friends, is over,
And here sweet wine makes, once again,
Sad eyes and hearts recover
Puts fire into every vein.
Drowns dull care
Everywhere
And summons hope out of despair.
To whom with acclamation
And song shall we our first toast give?
God save our land and nation
And all Slovenes where'er they live,
Who own the same
Blood and name,
And who one glorious Mother claim.
Let thunder out of heaven
Strike down and smite our wanton foe!
Now, as it once had thriven,
May our dear realm in freedom grow.
May fall the last
Chains of the past
Which bind us still and hold us fast!
Let peace, glad conciliation,
Come back to us throughout the land!
Towards their destination
Let Slavs henceforth go hand-in-hand!
Thus again
Will honour reign
To justice pledged in our domain.
To you, our pride past measure,
Our girls! Your beauty, charm and grace!
There surely is no treasure
To equal maidens of such race.
Sons you'll bear,
Who will dare
Defy our foe no matter where.
Our hope now, our to-morrow -
The youths - we toast and toast with joy.
No poisonous blight or sorrow
Your love of homeland shall destroy.
With us indeed
You're called to heed
Its summons in this hour of need.
Long live all the nations,
Who long and work for that bright day,
When o'er earth's habitations
No war, no strife shall hold its sway;
Who long to see
That all men free,
No more shall foes, but neighbours be.
At last to our reunion -
To us the toast! Let it resound,
Since in this great communion
By thoughts of brotherhood we're bound
May joyful cheer
Ne'er disappear
From all good hearts now gathered here.
And after that we formed jugoslavija together whit a few other nations and censhorchip was there too though not as bad.
So if you do not want to read a profane post then dont and do not reply, or reply if you clean it up i will anwser.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by purpledawn, posted 11-17-2010 10:00 AM purpledawn has seen this message but not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 119 of 192 (591975)
11-17-2010 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Straggler
11-17-2010 10:11 AM


Re: Reason for the Choice
quote:
However, overuse of swear words tends to diminish their beneficial effect.
I'll save my profanity for real pain. Then I only have to use one or two really good words.
Those who overuse profanity may have to swear a blue streak to get relief.
How do you spell relief? #@*&

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Straggler, posted 11-17-2010 10:11 AM Straggler has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 120 of 192 (591978)
11-17-2010 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by hooah212002
11-17-2010 10:12 AM


Re: Reason for the Choice
NOTE: So I don't have to keep typing the disclaimer "depending on how it is used", I am clarifying that I am addressing profanity used between opponents in a debate. I'm not addressing profanity used in humor threads or between those who are usually on the same side of the discussion. Please keep that in mind.
quote:
No it didn't. DB just chose not to respond because, like you, he/she is offended by and/or has a problem with the word fuck. No sweat off my nuts. "I don't speak potty mouth", to me, means "I'm a fucking prissy hoitey toitey goody two shoes and won't respond to gutter language" not "I don't know what that phrase means".
He did respond to what you said, but he seems to have misunderstood what you said. He probably thought he knew what you meant. I've had enough discussions with DB, so I know his difficulties. I truly believe he misunderstood what you wrote. Look at his response.
Dawn Bertot writes:
Hooah212002 writes:
You should know very well (since you are such a seasoned public debater in the evo-creo arena) that evolution has fuck all to do with origins. If you knew so much about evolution, you would know that it could occur whether there was a magic sky daddy farting atoms into existence, abiogenesis occurring, transpermia etc.
So you say it does have to do with origins, Percy and others say it does not. Let me know when you come to a consensus on this, so i will know which road to take
If he sees the "f" word as a useless adjective, which it is in many cases, then he is left with the idea that you said "evolution has all to do with origins".
BTW, I haven't said that profanity offends me. Pay attention to what I've written. You complain about Buz and DB, but you can't even comprehend what I've presented.
This comment of yours is interesting and goes to understanding.
Hooah212002 writes:
No sweat off my nuts. "I don't speak potty mouth", to me, means "I'm a fucking prissy hoitey toitey goody two shoes
To me, when he said he didn't speak potty mouth that told me that he didn't understand. If he said he didn't understand what "magic sky daddy" meant, or any other basic English word, would you be just as annoyed?
Just as you're doing with me, you jump to a conclusion that has nothing to do with what is written. That type of reasoning interferes with debate. That's how we end up with threads devolving into "no I didn't, yes you did" battles. Pay attention.
That is my point. This forum is a mixed bag of gender, age, cultures, beliefs, lifestyles, etc. When debating we shouldn't assume an opponent knows all the same slang or even the same level of vocabulary that we do. We shouldn't assume they perceive profanity the same way we do.
quote:
Uhh...because I didn't feel like it? Why do you choose certain words where a synonym would work exactly the same? Why does anyone? You are seriously the first person I have ever met that claims to not know what fuck all means, so I had no reason to not use the phrase without defining it.
Why are you on the defensive? Are you unable to have an emotionally uncommitted discussion about your choice of words?
I know exactly why I choose one word over another. You're evading the issue. Why did you choose the more emphatic word one time and not the other? What were you trying to convey to your opponent? It's the same person both times.
Your position has been they they are just words and while I agree they are words, words have meanings and project or elicit emotions. You want me to believe that when you use profanity, you are not projecting any harsh emotions at your opponent or casting a harsh tone on your post.
In your rather useless response you said you didn't feel like. This tells me that there is a feeling that goes along with the use of profanity. It may be stronger feelings for the subject being discussed, the opponent, events of the day, or all of the above. Different emotions are being projected than when using the more neutral word.
When friends are throwing profanity around no one thinks anything of it, but when disagreement ensues, profanity takes on a very different tone.
EvC is a debate forum, which means people pick opposing positions and try to defend them.
Usually, in a well-conducted debate, speakers are either emotionally uncommitted or can preserve sufficient detachment to maintain a coolly academic approach.-- Encylopedia Brittanica
Profanity between opponents tends to elicit more visceral responses. When face to face with opponents, profanity is basically trash talk. Get your opponent to lose control, get flustered, and make a mistake.
The point of the debate is to defend your position with facts, not bluster. Understanding through discussion, not intimidation.
Look at what you and crash have done in this discussion. You've brought no facts or reasoning, just belittling bluster.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by hooah212002, posted 11-17-2010 10:12 AM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by hooah212002, posted 11-17-2010 9:01 PM purpledawn has replied
 Message 130 by crashfrog, posted 11-19-2010 2:13 PM purpledawn has replied

  
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