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Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
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Author | Topic: Golden Age of biblical principles? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Buzsaw Inactive Member |
ringo writes: Ecclesiastes disagrees with you. There's nothing new under the sun. There were never any good old days. No, Ecclesiates does not disagree with me. It's a strawman. Ecclesiates is not prophetic relative to the end time decline of the Golden Age. Your quote mined phrase does not relate to specific timelines like a declining golden age. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future. Time Relates To What Is Temperal. What Is Eternal Is Timeless.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Buzsaw writes:
A strawman would be a misrepresentation of your position. If you think I've done that, point out where instead of slinging around words that you don't understand. No, Ecclesiates does not disagree with me. It's a strawman. Similarly, if you think I've quote-mined Ecclesiastes, go ahead and point out where.
quote:Your misunderstanding of prophecy doesn't change what it says. And why don't you respond to the point of my post? How can you call improved equality a "decline"? How do you account for good Christians like Dr. King participating in what you call a "decline"? "It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Dawn Bertot writes: Most people do not condone many of the actions of our government in an overt fashion, yet I will admit that often, we ignore the actions since we believe that they are necessary for our survival, even if they hurt other cultures or infringe on their rights.
Today's reality is just like the one back then, the VAST majority of people were simply hard working, worshiping people. jar writes: I can't deny that this happened. Americans of that time (or this time) may argue that the Indians resisted moving out of the way, and we had to look out for our own first. This behavior of humanity throughout the ages is not limited to America alone, though because we became an empire, we often were aggressive in order to do so.
The 1800 would be the period when the US, after signing a Treaty with the Kingdom of Hawaii invaded it and over threw the monarch. It would be the period of the Spanish American War when we invaded and took Puerto Rico. It would be when the US invaded Mexico and forced them to accept a treaty that gave the US what is now Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, California, Utah and parts of Colorado. It would be the period of the Indian Wars where the US not only took land from the Native Americans by force but also desecrated their Holy Places (which we continue to do today) but also outlawed and suppressed their religions and cultural practices.crashfrog writes: I often wonder whether the whole world could live under the U.S. constitution without exploiting or taking advantage of some class of people. (the stupid, maybe? ) The Constitution offers no right to be a racist, nor to engage in discrimination. The freedom to infringe on the freedom of others to move freely, engage in business, and work for a living is not a freedom guaranteed by the Constitution, regardless of your racist desires. The Civil Rights Act expanded freedom - it did not contract it. There's no such freedom as "the right to discriminate." I support my union precisely because they limit the power of the company to do what it wants with its money and wages.
Ringo writes: It just seems that way for those of us born in the late fifties in the U.S. Its hard for me to accept the idea that God never promised me a bigger rose garden than anyone else. There's nothing new under the sun. There were never any good old days. The patriotism and freedom that the US has, coupled with the fact that we as a nation have at times been evil in order to secure, is a fact. Jar thinks that all of us are responsible. If so, we never really have been a Christian nation. We gave out of our abundance at times, yet never gave our second cloak away. If we are to be judged, I hope that the judge is merciful.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I can't deny that this happened. Americans of that time (or this time) may argue that the Indians resisted moving out of the way, and we had to look out for our own first. This behavior of humanity throughout the ages is not limited to America alone, though because we became an empire, we often were aggressive in order to do so. The topic is that there was an alleged Golden Age based on the biblical principle "Love they neighbor as thy self" during the 1800s in the US. Are you now claiming that the characteristic of a biblical principle driven Golden Age is "we had to look out for our own first"? Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Dawn Bertot Member Posts: 3571 Joined: |
What people are doing at some other time is irrelevant to YOUR claim. A response of this nature makes it clear you have no indication of being objective, actually responding to my argument or answering questions, all of which are a part of debate Of course what the vast majority of the people are doing and how and with what they are conducting thier behavior, is the very issue and has everything to do with my claim The bible was nearly the sole rule, people attended churches in droves, churches were everywhere and people practiced the tenets of Christianity in that time period, even if they did not get everything perfect. unless you respond to arguments and questions, I cannot take you serious as an opponent in a debate Dawn Bertot Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.
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Dawn Bertot Member Posts: 3571 Joined: |
I'll bite and I will make it simple for you. Give me one piece of evidence. Show me evidence that the masses did what you assert. You mean that the Bible was the source of nearly all thinking, that there were countless churches in every single town. That people worshiped on and every sunday Id call that proof positive that that was a golden age for God and the scriptures Would you deny that even today all of the above situations exist in the MAJORITY, even if people are not perfect and dont always get everything exacally right. Only a person that is paying no attention at all, or has an agenda, like yourself, would deny that, even today, this is a God fearing Christian nation, where the Bible is revered as the Word of God. Id call that Golden, not perfection, but Golden What exacally are you looking for in Golden, perfection? Dawn Bertot Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given. Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.
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AdminPD Inactive Administrator |
Dawn Bertot,
Rule #10: ... Argue the position, not the person. ... Rule #4: Points should be supported with evidence and/or reasoned argumentation. Address rebuttals through the introduction of additional evidence or by enlarging upon the argument. Do not repeat previous points without further elaboration. Avoid bare assertions.
Please direct any comments concerning this Administrative msg to the Report Discussion Problems Here 3.0 thread. Any response in this thread will receive a 24 hour suspension. Thank youAdminPD
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Larni Member (Idle past 164 days) Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: |
Hi Dawn.
I wonder if you are talking at cross purposes here. It's my understanding that Buzz's point was that when people were all god fearing xians the country (I assume the US) was somehow better. I could be wrong (and do forgive me if I am) but you seem to describing a golden age of worship, where church attendence was far higher than it is now.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
You mean that the Bible was the source of nearly all thinking, that there were countless churches in every single town. That people worshiped on and every sunday Now you might want to try some evidence to back up this claim. Just because you believe this was true does not make it so. Can you provide any historical evidence to back up anything you claim?
Only a person that is paying no attention at all, or has an agenda, like yourself, would deny that, even today, this is a God fearing Christian nation, where the Bible is revered as the Word of God. Id call that Golden, not perfection, but Golden
Gee you might make me cry. Why didn't you just claim now was the golden age if this is what you feel? You might want to read some studies on church attendance if you want to go with that line of argument.
What exacally are you looking for in Golden, perfection? Maybe you can read the OP and the comment from Buz I took exception to, but that is only an idea. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Dawn Bertot writes: jar writes: What people are doing at some other time is irrelevant to YOUR claim. A response of this nature makes it clear you have no indication of being objective, actually responding to my argument or answering questions, all of which are a part of debate Of course what the vast majority of the people are doing and how and with what they are conducting thier behavior, is the very issue and has everything to do with my claim The bible was nearly the sole rule, people attended churches in droves, churches were everywhere and people practiced the tenets of Christianity in that time period, even if they did not get everything perfect. unless you respond to arguments and questions, I cannot take you serious as an opponent in a debate Dawn Bertot Let me try to remind you of what is being discussed.
quote: The claim made by you (and I asked several times just to make sure we were addressing the same issue and you confirmed that it was the issue) was that the 1800s in the Us were a Golden Age of Christianity driven by the biblical principle "Love thy neighbor as thyself" and that they used that as the sole guide in morals. I replied by pointing to the actual evidence that is available. You then asked about other times, for example when the US invaded Grenada. Sorry Charlie, but that was not during the 1800s which is the period in question in your claim. You then tried making assertions for which there was no evidence and then claims that have nothing to do with your claim. Frankly, I really don't much care whether you take me seriously or not, the arguments I make will stand or fall based on the content, not the source. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
I could be wrong (and do forgive me if I am) but you seem to describing a golden age of worship, where church attendence was far higher than it is now. DB seems to be incapable of providing evidence for even that.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 284 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Dr. Adequate, you're adequacy level of debate is waning here in this message, decrying the escape of the oppressed people from Europe and GB, risking life and posessions for freedom in the Americas. Here's the deal. If you're serious, to be fair to whom you consider the oppressed, you need to find yourself an oppressed descendent of one of the tribes cited and hand over all you have to their nation; your land, because you think it belongs to them and your stuff for repatriation. You're being hypocritical claiming deed to land which IYO does not belong to you. This has nothing to do with what I wrote. I simply pointed out that as a matter of historical fact the US did "grab nations and add them to our empire". I did not say nor imply that it would now be a good idea to give it all back, say sorry, and go back to Europe; nor that it was, in the final analysis, a bad thing; I just said that it happened. Which is a fact. --- In the same way, if someone points out that slavery existed, do you start yelling at them that if that's what they think they should give everything they have to a black person, and that they're hypocritical if they don't? It's merely a factual proposition about events in the past.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 284 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
The problem with the Civil Rights movement was it went to far towards the decline of freedom. Rights of employers and landlords were taken, employer requirements for minorities, women's rights, children rights and animal rights gay rights etc. All of these so called rights for designated classes infringed on the rights of others and increased government and bureacracy. School districts were required to buy buses for integration of students. Those are just to mention a few. And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.
Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables. Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business. And the multitude said, this is Political Correctness gone mad. And behold, it increaseth bureaucracy. For this giveth special rights to the Grecians, who are thereby made equal to the Hebrews, which maketh their rights more special than the rights of the Hebrews, inasmuch as they are exactly the same. For lo, they are become a Designated Class. And the multitude denounced the apostles for liberals. And there was great lamentation in the land.
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frako Member (Idle past 305 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
The problem with the Civil Rights movement was it went to far towards the decline of freedom. Rights of employers and landlords were taken, employer requirements for minorities, women's rights, children rights and animal rights gay rights etc. All of these so called rights for designated classes infringed on the rights of others and increased government and bureacracy. School districts were required to buy buses for integration of students. Those are just to mention a few. Um sorry to disapoint you but those are not rights, rights are things that cannot be taken away, if you think your rights cannot be taken away ask the Japanese Americans that lived during WW2 and they will tell you all about these rights. All of the above are not rights they are privilages .
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
jar writes: The claim made by you (and I asked several times just to make sure we were addressing the same issue and you confirmed that it was the issue) was that the 1800s in the Us were a Golden Age of Christianity driven by the biblical principle "Love thy neighbor as thyself" and that they used that as the sole guide in morals. I think your definition of neighbor is 'unBiblically' broad. Were the Native American's really the neighbors of the Anglo-Saxons simply because they lived next door? Were the Canaanites the neighbors of the Hebrews? When the proto-Americans left Europe to escape religious persecution that was practically a replay of Exodus. What could be more Biblical than going all Manifest Destiny and stuff on the descendants of Cain or Ham? No, manifest destiny was not very enlightened or Christ-like. But it was Biblical. Or at least it was until some progressives decided that equal rights applied to non-neighbors. Stinkin' Whigs in American clothing. Edited by NoNukes, : Fix a stupid your/you're error
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