Even if there was a Designer, does it matter?

They do exist. We can verify that.Just like living things and rocks and trees.We happen to know that radios as one example, were designed, but only because the radio is a creation of human beings.But the question is, since we know they do exist, does the designer even matter for any reason other than as a historical footnote or in the case of product liability suits?

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

non sequitur. Where a human spends eternity has no bearing on whether a designer exists or not.

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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

Yes jar. Yes yes yes. IF nothing can exist without the designer then the designer matters.You never answered my question. Could the radio or the automobile exist without a designer?
Why is that?

The thread is not about IF the designer exists but IF it matters IF he does exist.

I did answer the question. We know they exist regardless of whether or not they were designed.Nor is there any evidence that "IF nothing can exist without the designer then the designer matters." Well, we certainly know that the radio can exist even if not designed. We know that mobility can exist even if not designed.The two specific items though we know were designed, but again, I see no reason that even in that case the designer is of any relevance other than as an historical footnote or in the case of product liability suits.Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Think of an experiment. What kind of test can you do where you can predict, "If there is a designer, A will happen. If there is no designer, B will happen."

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"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"

Show me your evidence that it doesn't matter. Show me one without the aid of a designed computer. We were talking about an automobile not mobility. And this is why I laugh when I hear you spouting off about being a Christian

You first

HUH?You want evidence that it does not matter? You do know how things work in a debate or discussion don't you? HUH?You do know that we discovered that stars and other objects produce radio before computers didn't you? And I responded that we know that automobiles are designed. But again, does the designer matter? HUH?

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

I'll write this slowly so you can read it slowly and try to understand the point.The universe exists. There are certain truths about the universe that we can learn through study. These things will be true whether a designer exists or doesn't.Our best theory now states that things came about by natural processes. Your belief is that it was designed and created by a deity.What difference does it make as far as our understanding of the universe is concerned which of the two are more accurate? The thread is not about spiritual or supernatural or mystical differences between the two; any idiot can see what those differences are, as you are showing us. The question is what difference does it make as far as studying the universe and understanding it is concerned.If you cannot understand and keep in mind this difference, you are intellectually incapable of staying on topic in this thread.If my understanding of the topic of the thread is inaccurate, I'm sure jar is more than capable of correcting me, and I would welcome further guidance from him if I am in error.

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Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

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We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

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It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

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...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

Glad you asked. In Message 8 of the thread "INTELLIGENT DESIGN: An Engineer's Approach" I pointed out some tests.I can repeat them here for you.

quote:

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There is also the fact that the designer is too stupid to adopt good ideas.

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Consider cars. There are many species or kinds of cars, Packard, Ford, Chevy, Mercedes, Humber, DKW, AutoUnion, Alfa Romeo, Citroen just as there are many kinds of mammals, lions, tigers, bears, man, orangutan, elephant, horse and of course, ohmys.

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The difference between something designed, like cars, and those things that are not designed like mammals though can be seen in the difference in how good ideas do not propagate through out the living species or kinds.

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In the early 1920s power windshield wipers appeared on the first car. Within only a few years they were found on every car.

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In 1923 the first standard equipment radio appeared. Within only a few years they were found on every car.

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In 1939, Buick introduced turn signals. Within only a few years they were found on every car.

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The list is almost endless.

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* electric wipers instead of vacuum.
* internal combustion engines.
* radial tires.
* heaters.
* air conditioning.
* roll down windows.
* headlights.
* mirrors.
* steering wheels.
* tops.
* spare tires.
* space saver spares.
* starters.
* the change from generator to alternator.

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I could go on but that list should give you an idea.

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In each instance this was a new feature that first appeared in only one make, sometimes only one model of a car. The designer though took good ideas from one model and applied those same ideas to EVERY model.

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We do not see that when we look at examples of living critters. The humans brain is not then repeated in all mammals, the eagles eyes are not then repeated in all animals, good features, advances do not get incorporated across all the makes and models, species or kind, of mammals.

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Looking at living critters what we find is NOT Intelligent Design.

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In fact, what we do find is not design but rather whatever is just barely good enough to get by.But even here the issue remains, even where we can see design, other than as an historical footnote or in the case of product liability suits, does the designer matter?

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

What a completely stupid argument. God is a creative genius. The variety of different creatures and various features was intentional. He could have easily made everything the same as a moron such as yourself would have done.Its the same old argument with you people. You are so arrogant that your argument is "If I were God I would have done it like such and so." You make me want to puke.

He could have also easily made everything completely unique instead of re-using and modifying parts, that lazy sod.

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It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

Key word being "Our".I"ll tell you what there subbie. When "Your" people show me how to create life from nothing I'll be the first to worship at "your" altar.Till then I will worship at the altar of the one who CAN create life from nothing.You guys go ahead and wallow around in your stupidity, I have more important things to tend to...
IC

Except that the merits of the different concepts is not the topic of this thread. You do know what a topic is, don't you?

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Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

​

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

​

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

​

...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist