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Author Topic:   Even if there was a Designer, does it matter?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18655
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 16 of 214 (589567)
11-03-2010 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Jon
11-03-2010 10:30 AM


Re: It IS important
Jon writes:
If there was a designer, there was always a designer. How does discovering this designer change the reality of the Universe?
How does our knowledge of a designer in any way alter objective Reality?
You are sometimes a little wee clone of jars!
IF a designer or a Designer exists, it won't change our reality. The only thing that bothers me about this is that I prefer an interactive designer, sorta like a player/owner in sports.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Jon, posted 11-03-2010 10:30 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Jon, posted 11-03-2010 12:11 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18655
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 20 of 214 (589572)
11-03-2010 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Jon
11-03-2010 12:11 PM


Its The Designers ,Stupid
OK, perhaps a better example would be Jack Nicklaus designing a golf course upon which he then plays.
The way my simple fundie mind sees it, God sent His human son to experience the human that God created.
We find meaning, value, and purpose in believing that a Designer not only created, but has participated in the human evolutionary experience. (at least I do)

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 Message 18 by Jon, posted 11-03-2010 12:11 PM Jon has replied

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 Message 22 by Jon, posted 11-03-2010 12:31 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18655
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 25 of 214 (589595)
11-03-2010 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Jon
11-03-2010 12:31 PM


Re: Its The Designers ,Stupid
grasshopper writes:
What does any of that have to do with the potential usefulness of knowing about a designer?
I suppose that you have a point. There is technically nothing useful in knowing God, since that whats this all about.

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 Message 22 by Jon, posted 11-03-2010 12:31 PM Jon has replied

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 Message 27 by Jon, posted 11-03-2010 1:36 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18655
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 26 of 214 (589598)
11-03-2010 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by jar
11-03-2010 12:14 PM


Re: It IS important
jar writes:
If there was a designer, the designer itself still just gets relegated to either a historical footnote, or as mentioned, in Product Liability suits.
This is what frustrates me about you. You always make a case for humans having to be fully responsible for anything and everything that happens in reality. Of course, if we eliminate the original sin cop out, I suppose we have no need for superman God to intervene.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18655
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 28 of 214 (589601)
11-03-2010 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Jon
11-03-2010 1:36 PM


Re: Its The Designers ,Stupid
Jon writes:
There is absolutely nothing in this topic about knowing God.
And that's what frustrates I.D. proponents. They can not nor will not imagine a universe where God is irrelevant.
When I think about it, it makes me a bit queasy as well. I can accept the premise, however. The SOURCE (Designer) is unimportant. The CONTENT (all that can be subject to testing) is the basis of the arguments. For this reason, I don't accept I.D. as valid science since it conflicts with the mainstream established science already published.
I simply don't believe that some scientists are approaching the methodology all wrong while others are apparently enlightened due to awareness of a "Source."
Dirk writes:
The existence or non-existence of a designer does in no way change anything we already know about the world. Evolution by means of random mutation, natural selection etc. takes place, so if life was really designed with a plan, evolution must have been part of that plan (or the plan went wrong).
I agree. How the universe came into existence can be examined without need of referral to the SOURCE of the existence.(unless we are all somehow deluded)
Edited by Phat, : added features!

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18655
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 71 of 214 (590007)
11-05-2010 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Jon
11-05-2010 11:47 AM


Re: Smaller Steps
Jon writes:
This last question is the chase. Your answering it will cut us straight there..
Whom is chasing whom?
Perhaps a better question?
1) What are we chasing? (The truth, perhaps)
If so, does it matter IF there is a designer or not? (Only if the desired outcome changes) As Adequate succinctly stated: How would we know? (We wouldnt) Thus...what are we chasing again??

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18655
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 134 of 214 (598392)
12-30-2010 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Jon
11-03-2010 10:30 AM


Re: It IS important
Jon writes:
If there was a designer, there was always a designer. How does discovering this designer change the reality of the Universe?
How does our knowledge of a designer in any way alter objective Reality?
A house is just a building. A home becomes a home because of human interaction. It has meaning, feeling, and purpose.
Likewise, a universe is just a bunch of stars, gases and planets. It only has meaning for us, as a species, if we find intelligence and other life. (or perhaps minerals to mine and exploit, making some of us wealthy!!) If we were to actually know of a designer, it would be the most important advance in society akin to discovering life on another planet! (I mean real life btw..not simple pond scum)

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 Message 12 by Jon, posted 11-03-2010 10:30 AM Jon has replied

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