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Author Topic:   Atheist Appreciation of Biblical Wisdom and Inspiration
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 1 of 105 (588988)
10-29-2010 1:05 PM


Atheist Appreciation of Biblical Wisdom and Inspiration
My knowledge of the bible is limited and (it has to be admitted) largely shaped by my exposure in opposition to various EvC style debates. To me it has primarily been a reference source rather than a book that I have read for it’s narrative or wisdom or inspiration. So..
Given that I am neither seeking nor likely to be converted, given that I accept the historical importance of the bible to Western civilisation and can appreciate the worth of understanding it in that context - How would those who consider the bible to be a source of wisdom and inspiration suggest that I, as a non-believer, appreciate the more inspirational and timeless wisdom aspects of it?
Are there particular passages that I can be directed to as being of significant timeless wisdom and meaning? Are there particular parts that even a die hard atheist can point to as being inspirational and insightful?
If those with more biblical knowledge than I were to try and pinpoint the parts of the bible that they think stand out as significant regardless of ones belief which parts would they direct me to? And why?
I am not really in a position to dispute people's choices on this so this is more an opportunity for advice and discussion with those I am normally rampantly disagreeing with as far as I am concerned. But biblicists should feel free to rampantly disagree with each other if the mood takes them.
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

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AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 2 of 105 (589062)
10-30-2010 7:44 AM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Atheist Appreciation of Biblical Wisdom and Inspiration thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 3 of 105 (589065)
10-30-2010 8:52 AM


Where To Begin
Hi Straggler. Great topic!
At the beginning of King Solomon's reign, he was given the unusual priviledge by God to essentially be granted whatever thing he desired. Instead of asking for wisdom and power, etc he asked for wisdom and knowledge to rule Israel well and justly, etc.
In that night God appeared to Solomon and said to him, "Ask what I shall give you." (2 Chronicles 1:7).
"Give me now wisdom and knowledge, that I may go out and come in before this people; for who can rule this great people of Thine?" And God said to Solomon, "Because you had this in mind, and did not ask for riches, wealth, or honor, or the life of those who hate you, nor have you even asked for long life, but you have asked for yourself wisdom and knowledge, that you may rule My people, over whom I have made you king, wisdom and knowledge have been granted to you. And I will give you riches and wealth and honor, such as none of the kings who were before you has possessed, nor those who will come after you." (2 Chronicles 1:10-12).
Solomon was not only renouned in all of the civilized world for his wisdom, but his kingdom had more wealth and renouned greatness than any before or after him.
I would advise the entire book of Proverbs for a wisdom. You, Straggler, are wise to open this topic. Why? Because you, like Solomon are seeking wisdom. Wisdom helps one to apply knowledge. Many knowledgeable folk have little wisdom, but wise folk usually aquire (abe: knowledge) and other good things in life.
Edited by Buzsaw, : as noted

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 4 of 105 (589074)
10-30-2010 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Straggler
10-29-2010 1:05 PM


There is little unique in the Bible
There is very little in the Bible that is unique or unusual. The basic and IMHO really important passage is of course Matthew 22:36-40
quote:
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
The Bible is just one source for wisdom and inspiration and after reading that one short passage I'd suggest that you look at the works of Confucus and Mencius (the former dealing mostly with the ethics of people while the later deals mostly with the ethics of leaders and rulers) and then the Tao Te Ching.
For information on behavior and morality, the Eastern writers and the Western Philosophers are likely better sources. Most of the Bible deals not with behavior or morality but rather with the mythos of creating a Hebrew identity and then later, the creation of a Christian identity.
It is interesting to me though that there does seem to be an almost universal enlightening that happened in several waves, the first around the middle to late bronze age and another that begins around two thousand year ago.
Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 5 of 105 (589078)
10-30-2010 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Straggler
10-29-2010 1:05 PM


Re: Atheist Appreciation of Biblical Wisdom and Inspiration
He who tries to gain wisdom from one book is not wise.

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 105 (589082)
10-30-2010 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Straggler
10-29-2010 1:05 PM


Re: Atheist Appreciation of Biblical Wisdom and Inspiration
Are there particular parts that even a die hard atheist can point to as being inspirational and insightful?
James is a fun one.
Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

Check out Apollo's Temple!

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GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 7 of 105 (589084)
10-30-2010 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Straggler
10-29-2010 1:05 PM


Re: Atheist Appreciation of Biblical Wisdom and Inspiration
Hi Straggler
Micah 6: 1-8 with the point being made in vs 8.
Christianity can be summed up in that last verse and it can be taken as universally good advice.

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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 8 of 105 (589096)
10-30-2010 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by ringo
10-30-2010 11:53 AM


Re: Atheist Appreciation of Biblical Wisdom and Inspiration
ringo writes:
He who tries to gain wisdom from one book is not wise.
Very good, Ringo. That's the greatest argument for the Bible (abe: being the) most reliable and substantiated holy book chock full of wisdom, knowledge, history and fulfilled prophecy etc.
It is unique; a compilation of 66 books, written over a period of some 1500 years from diverse nations by roughly 40 different writers from all walks of life including lowly self educated shepherds, nomadic prophets dwelling in the wilderness, fishermen, highly educated noblemen and majestic kings.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by Buzsaw, : Noted in context

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by ringo, posted 10-30-2010 11:53 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by ringo, posted 10-30-2010 2:34 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 11 by hooah212002, posted 10-30-2010 2:41 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 9 of 105 (589097)
10-30-2010 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Buzsaw
10-30-2010 2:28 PM


Re: Atheist Appreciation of Biblical Wisdom and Inspiration
Buzsaw writes:
It is unique; a compilation of 66 books, written over a period of some 1500 years from diverse nations by roughly 40 different writers from all walks of life including lowly self educated shepherds, nomadic prophets dwelling in the wilderness, fishermen, highly educated noblemen and majestic kings.
But the canon (your canon, that is) was decided by a handful of men in dresses.

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 10 of 105 (589098)
10-30-2010 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by ringo
10-30-2010 2:34 PM


Re: Atheist Appreciation of Biblical Wisdom and Inspiration
And even if what Buz claimed was true, how does that in any way address any value of the content?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 11 of 105 (589099)
10-30-2010 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Buzsaw
10-30-2010 2:28 PM


Re: Atheist Appreciation of Biblical Wisdom and Inspiration
.....holy book chock full of wisdom....
So full of wisdom, that the first verse that comes to your mind when recommending passages full of wisdom, is one about some guy asking god for wisdom.

"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.

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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 12 of 105 (589101)
10-30-2010 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by hooah212002
10-30-2010 2:41 PM


Re: Atheist Appreciation of Biblical Wisdom and Inspiration
hooah writes:
So full of wisdom, that the first verse that comes to your mind when recommending passages full of wisdom, is one about some guy asking god for wisdom.
Yes, Hooah, wise men and women ever learn and ever become wiser.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by hooah212002, posted 10-30-2010 2:41 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 105 (589103)
10-30-2010 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by jar
10-30-2010 2:37 PM


Re: Atheist Appreciation of Biblical Wisdom and Inspiration
jar writes:
And even if what Buz claimed was true, how does that in any way address any value of the content
The thread OP calls for references to content. One must read thoughtfully the content of reference to benefit the value of content. Savvy?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by jar, posted 10-30-2010 2:37 PM jar has replied

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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 14 of 105 (589104)
10-30-2010 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by ringo
10-30-2010 2:34 PM


Re: Atheist Appreciation of Biblical Wisdom and Inspiration
ringo writes:
But the canon (your canon, that is) was decided by a handful of men in dresses.
Not so. It evolved over centuries, beginning with the times of the writers. There's a thead on that ongoing if I recall rightly in which I weighed in on that count.
In fact, so what? What is important relative to this thread is whether the source makes one wiser and more knowledgeable as well as where to find the most useful wisdom and knowledge in it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by ringo, posted 10-30-2010 2:34 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by ringo, posted 10-30-2010 5:05 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 15 of 105 (589105)
10-30-2010 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Buzsaw
10-30-2010 3:47 PM


Re: Atheist Appreciation of Biblical Wisdom and Inspiration
Buz writes:
The thread OP calls for references to content. One must read thoughtfully the content of reference to benefit the value of content. Savvy?
No Buz, I don't savvy. You said:
Buz writes:
It is unique; a compilation of 66 books, written over a period of some 1500 years from diverse nations by roughly 40 different writers from all walks of life including lowly self educated shepherds, nomadic prophets dwelling in the wilderness, fishermen, highly educated noblemen and majestic kings.
Even if that is true, how does that in any way address any value of the content? How would it make the Bible any more valuable then the Vedas, the Eight Fold Path, the writings of Confucius or Mencius, the Tao Te Ching or the Avestan?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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