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Author Topic:   How do we tell the difference, Ahmad?
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Message 33 of 63 (27782)
12-24-2002 12:19 PM

A few people have done just that right here on EvC (Zimzam was one I think Cobrasnake did as well)...
Which is why I always carry my handy dandy "that makes God a deciever and hence not omnibenevolent" argument with me wherever I go....
Just one application of the patent pending formula and the discussion gets shunted into a lovely little "God can decieve us and not be a liar" contradiction....
You to can be the proud owner of the "that makes God a deciever and hence not omnibenevolent" argument just send $19.99 (5 installments thereof) + $5.99 P+P and we will rush you a special signed copy through the mail within 2 months....
Call now to order
Seriously the whole God is a deciever and not omnibenevolent argument is pretty good, as most creationists would rather look for evidence that ain`t there till the cows come home than knock benevolence off of the om' list.....
[This message has been edited by joz, 12-24-2002]

Inactive Member

Message 34 of 63 (27783)
12-24-2002 12:28 PM

Here it is BTW....
Dug up from way back....
Theo I posted this for Zimzam a while ago....
The point under debate was that if God made a universe with apparent age he was a deciever (in the sense used by Descartes in his mediations) and therefore not the perfectly good God of christian theology...
Ok in summary:
Assuming God exists....
1)Either the biblical account of creation ex nihilo X,000 (where X is of the close order of 10) years ago is a)correct or b)it isn`t....
2)Either the biblical God is a) infinitely (or perfectly) good or b) isn`t...
2)a)Precludes 1)a) in that an infinitely (or perfectly) good God would be morally prohibited from an act that would lead to a deception....
2)a)Can be taken to not prohibit 1)b) in that a God that created a universe a time of the close order of 10,000,000,000 years ago which contains evidence of that age has not commited an act of deception....(i)
However it could also be argued that such an infinitely good God would remove from circulation any accounts of creation that were false thus prohibiting 1)b)....(ii)
2)b)Prohibits no courses of action but relies on God not being of perfect moral character which itself contradicts popular christian belief....(iii)
Thus either (i) or (ii) is right:
If (i) God is the perfectly good creator of a 10,000,000,000 year old universe.
Or (ii) is right In which case as the biblical account is still around means God must be as described in 2)b) which gives case (iii)
(iii) God is described by 2)b) a less than perfect (morally) deity who can willfully of by lack of forethought decieve contrary to popular christian belief.....

Inactive Member

Message 36 of 63 (27787)
12-24-2002 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Gzus
12-24-2002 1:17 PM

But then God is not omnipotent....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Gzus, posted 12-24-2002 1:17 PM Gzus has not replied

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