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Author Topic:   How do we tell the difference, Ahmad?
forgiven
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 63 (27537)
12-20-2002 8:19 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Peter
12-19-2002 6:19 AM


Originally posted by Peter:
Life developed by adapting to where it had to live.
who says?
Peter:
The universe isn't finely tuned to support life on Earth,
life on Earth has adapted to exploit the universe.
who says?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Peter, posted 12-19-2002 6:19 AM Peter has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by John, posted 12-20-2002 10:15 PM forgiven has replied

  
forgiven
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 63 (27690)
12-22-2002 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by John
12-20-2002 10:15 PM


quote:
Originally posted by John:
quote:
Originally posted by forgiven:
Originally posted by Peter:
Life developed by adapting to where it had to live.
who says?

If you moved to the artic, would you adapt or would the environment?
quote:
Peter:
The universe isn't finely tuned to support life on Earth,
life on Earth has adapted to exploit the universe.
who says?

The universe was here some 10 billion years before the Earth showed up, give or take. And the Earth was here 1.5-2 billion years before life showed up. So what do you think is adapting to what? Is the Universe and the Earth finely tuning themselves to life-- which didn't exist during most of that fine tuning process--, or is life adapting to the universe? Its a pretty simple causal relationship.

oh... that's who said... and silly me was thinking the assertions above were merely made from presuppositions

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by John, posted 12-20-2002 10:15 PM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by John, posted 12-23-2002 1:06 AM forgiven has replied

  
forgiven
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 63 (27774)
12-24-2002 6:29 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by John
12-23-2002 1:06 AM


quote:
Originally posted by John:
This seems an awfully shallow response, and for you, that is atypical.
sorry... it's just that rarely have i been allowed to get away with making statements like these,
Originally posted by Peter:
Life developed by adapting to where it had to live.
The universe isn't finely tuned to support life on Earth, life on Earth has adapted to exploit the universe.
without someone coming along and accusing me of making bald assertions... it occured to me that peter had made a couple of assertions with, as far as i could tell, only his opinion to back them up... what if i change them, what if i stated as a truth claim (as he did):
God finely tuned the universe so that life would be possible on earth.
God created life on earth after having molded earth in such a way as to support that life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by John, posted 12-23-2002 1:06 AM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by John, posted 12-24-2002 9:38 AM forgiven has not replied

  
forgiven
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 63 (28020)
12-28-2002 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by mark24
12-28-2002 7:31 AM


quote:
Originally posted by mark24:
I have never claimed IC systems evolved. in fact, I've challenged you to show that I have many posts ago. My argument all along has been that your argument should be able to stand by itself. But so what if I did? The argument is; can you support your contention that IC systems never evolved? not whether I can show that they did, regardless of your repeated efforts to switch the burden of proof.
that is fair, mark... so tell me, what is your position on ic and evolution? do you think ic systems can evolve or have evolved?
do you agree that a bacterial flagella is an example of an ic system? if so, what is your view on how or why it exists? did it evolve?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by mark24, posted 12-28-2002 7:31 AM mark24 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Mr. Davies, posted 12-30-2002 12:31 PM forgiven has not replied

  
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