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Author
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Topic: What is Life?
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jar
Member (Idle past 97 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 7 of 268 (581070)
09-13-2010 11:42 AM
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Reply to: Message 1 by mosassam
09-02-2010 10:00 PM
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I can definitely point to areas that are green, and areas that are not green, but there are also areas that are kinda green or kinda not green.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by mosassam, posted 09-02-2010 10:00 PM | | mosassam has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 97 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 12 of 268 (587169)
10-17-2010 12:41 PM
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Reply to: Message 11 by mosassam
10-17-2010 12:31 PM
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As I pointed out in Message 7, life appears to be a spectrum as opposed to some discrete point.
As Frank Yurco stated "Life should be taken as a given, like energy or matter." But even when we look at matter and energy there is no discrete point. There are things we can describe as energy or as matter depending on our perspective.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 11 by mosassam, posted 10-17-2010 12:31 PM | | mosassam has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 15 by mosassam, posted 10-17-2010 12:54 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 97 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 20 of 268 (587177)
10-17-2010 1:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 15 by mosassam
10-17-2010 12:54 PM
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I have no idea. Not at all sure what any of that means. As I have said, there are things where we can definitely say, "Yup, that's alive." There are things where we can say "Yup, that's not alive." But there are also things that seem alive and not alive depending on the perspective and moment. Not sure what "real" has to do with any of it.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 15 by mosassam, posted 10-17-2010 12:54 PM | | mosassam has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 21 by mosassam, posted 10-17-2010 1:11 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 97 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 23 of 268 (587182)
10-17-2010 1:20 PM
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Reply to: Message 21 by mosassam
10-17-2010 1:11 PM
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Would you agree that 'alive' can mean to 'possess Life'. Nope, wouldn't even understand how life could be possessed less we are talking Exorcist films.
If so is this Life as scientifically comprehensible as Energy or Matter? We still have a very long way before we comprehend energy or matter too.
Let's keep it to the things that we can say "yup, that's alive". Can't do that. That would be excluding data and so very much non scientific.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 21 by mosassam, posted 10-17-2010 1:11 PM | | mosassam has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 25 by mosassam, posted 10-17-2010 1:30 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 97 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 26 of 268 (587185)
10-17-2010 1:42 PM
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Reply to: Message 25 by mosassam
10-17-2010 1:30 PM
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Not all that much. It means that the thing seems to be something that reproduces by one of many different methods, capable of movement, that takes in some form of energy and expels some form of waste at least during part of its life cycle and that at some point can be said to be not alive. It is really loose, vague. As I pointed out way back in Message 7...
There are points where I can say it is blue, or green, but there are also many places that are kinda green or kinda blue or not blue or not green.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 25 by mosassam, posted 10-17-2010 1:30 PM | | mosassam has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 97 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Sad Sad Sad
It's not really a scientific definition. It was an interesting essay though.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar
Member (Idle past 97 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Sad Sad Sad
Did you read your own link? Didn't think so.
quote:
Science 22 March 2002:
Vol. 295 no. 5563 pp. 2215-2216
DOI: 10.1126/science.1068489 * Essays on Science and Society SPECIAL ESSAY
The Seven Pillars of Life
There is a difference between peer review and editorial sections. This one is an essay. In this case, it simply repeats what so many people have already told you. In most cases life is a spectrum that is not something clear and easily defined at the extremes. There are things that are easy to point to and say, "yup, that's alive", others where it is quite difficult. In addition, so far we only have one sample of "life" to study. Even here there are things like prions that exhibit many of the so called "pillars" but are not DNA based. Life ain't a simple concept and so often we fall back on really generalized non specific language as in this essay. The essay boils down to "When I see it I will know it; possibly." Finally, for most things "life" is simply not that important a thing to define. It's just fine for now to have the fuzzy edges.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar
Member (Idle past 97 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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A rose is a rose ...
AlphaOmegakid writes: How much more specific can a scientist be? Considerably more specific. But when it comes to the boundary between living things and non-living things, the reality is that it does get fuzzy.
AlphaOmegakid writes: How can a rational person read this essay and come to this conclusion? A rational person understands that often the proper answer is "I don't know."
AlphaOmegakid writes: Well it seems imprtant enough to have a whole field of science named after it. And guess what? Life Sciences study those things we can point out and say "Yup, that's alive" and it also looks at some things and says "Look here. Is this alive?"
AlphaOmegakid writes: Yeah, I think they call that "fuzzy science". I do not doubt that you think that is true, but it isn't. The issue is that you seem to want everything and all knowledge to be neat, clean, clear, with sharp edges, boundaries and definitions. Unfortunately the Universe is even stranger than anyone thinks and we fortunately, don't have all the answers. But just substituting "goddidit" tells us nothing. Pretending we have the answer tells us nothing.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar
Member (Idle past 97 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Sad Sad Sad
Was the definition you provided from an essay?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar
Member (Idle past 97 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Sad Sad Sad
AOK writes: No, to the contrary. I supplied a scientific definition from a noted scientist published in a scientific journal. I supplied a scientific definition. Do you know what an essay is?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar
Member (Idle past 97 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Sad Sad Sad
Would it still be an essay?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar
Member (Idle past 97 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Sad Sad Sad
Yet still just an essay, the personal opinion of the author, a pet definition.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar
Member (Idle past 97 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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different sections in magazines.
So you admit that it is an essay and claim that you know what an essay is. Now next question is do you understand that magazines and journals have different sections?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar
Member (Idle past 97 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: different sections in magazines.
So you agree it is an essay, and claim to know what an essay is, and that you know magazines and journals have different sections. So the next question is about those sections. Do you understand that some sections are devoted to reporting research and other devoted to personal opinion and others to general communications?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar
Member (Idle past 97 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: different sections in magazines.
And we are working towards an answer, once I know that you understand the basics. Any reply right now means little until we can establish those. So you agree it is an essay, and claim to know what an essay is, and that you know magazines and journals have different sections. So the next question is about those sections. Do you understand that some sections are devoted to reporting research and other devoted to personal opinion and others to general communications?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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