Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
7 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,432 Year: 3,689/9,624 Month: 560/974 Week: 173/276 Day: 13/34 Hour: 0/6


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   "Creation Science" experiments.
nwr
Member
Posts: 6409
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 18 of 396 (579355)
09-04-2010 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Just being real
09-04-2010 8:13 AM


Re: What's a creation experiment exactly?
Just being real writes:
How does one do a scientific experiment on an event that is postulated in history.
The result of an experiment is always a new event, and never a repeat of an old event.
Science does experiments to test procedures and methods, not to repeat events. We test our explanation of past events by testing whether the processes and actions that our explanations assert do indeed have the kind of outcomes that we see in the evidence of those past events.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Just being real, posted 09-04-2010 8:13 AM Just being real has not replied

nwr
Member
Posts: 6409
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 41 of 396 (579636)
09-05-2010 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by hooah212002
09-05-2010 9:26 AM


Re: Contestant Number 1
hooah212002 writes:
However, a simple "no, that is a bad example" or something like that would have sufficed as opposed to calling me ignorant.
I think you are making a mistake in taking offense to what Blue Jay wrote in Message 29.
Firstly, that message was a reply to Dawn Bertot. It was Dawn Bertot who had said that you made an ignorant statement. Blue Jay was calling her out for that, pointing out that if she saw you as saying something foolish, she should have attempted to educate you instead of just calling names.
If you read that in context, you will see that Blue Jay was using the words expressed by Dawn Bertot in order to more effectively communicate with her. I don't see any indication that Blue Jay would ordinarily have chosen "ignorant" as the appropriate word to use.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by hooah212002, posted 09-05-2010 9:26 AM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by hooah212002, posted 09-05-2010 10:27 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

nwr
Member
Posts: 6409
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 85 of 396 (581374)
09-15-2010 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by Just being real
09-15-2010 3:09 AM


Re: Creation/ID "Science" and Discovery
Just being real writes:
If you don't believe me ask yourself this, "What atheistic evolutionist approaches science and says that he will accept whatever the evidence points to, even if it is a supernatural cause?"
I would guess most scientists will accept whatever evidence.
Once the scientist finds good evidence, he will then say that the evidence is natural.
You seem to hold the view that there is a fixed division in the natural and the supernatural. But history does not support that view. Rather, there is a division in the natural and the supernatural, but the division is not fixed. As science grows, more and more moves into what is considered the natural realm, and the supernatural realm continues to shrink.
The folly of supernaturalist religion, is that it sets itself up to fail. It will never find any evidence, for once evidence is found that evidence will be considered part of the natural realm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Just being real, posted 09-15-2010 3:09 AM Just being real has not replied

nwr
Member
Posts: 6409
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 308 of 396 (584549)
10-02-2010 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 306 by Dr Adequate
10-02-2010 2:27 PM


Re: How Intelligent Design qualifies as a scientific theory
Dr Adequate writes:
Because no-one but you has ever used the term apc, because they don't know what it means.
It is the name of some over-the-counter pills you used to be able to buy at the drug store. I think it was Aspirin, Phenacetin, Caffeine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 306 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-02-2010 2:27 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

nwr
Member
Posts: 6409
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 319 of 396 (584887)
10-04-2010 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 309 by Just being real
10-04-2010 12:47 PM


Re: How Intelligent Design qualifies as a scientific theory
Just being real writes:
Several precise mathematical laws have been formulated by computer scientists which express the Law of Conservation of Information.
References?
Just being real writes:
This law states that within certain limits the amount of information in a computer in its initial state (counting software and hardware) equals or exceeds the amount of information in its final state.
For sure, that is not the statement of any "precise mathematical laws."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 309 by Just being real, posted 10-04-2010 12:47 PM Just being real has not replied

nwr
Member
Posts: 6409
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 320 of 396 (584898)
10-04-2010 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 314 by Just being real
10-04-2010 12:48 PM


Re: How Intelligent Design qualifies as a scientific theory
Just being real writes:
Using this method for measuring information communicated in the DNA strand we can see that it is indeed abstruse information, but there is another element to understanding information in DNA.
Which method?
Your previous paragraph gave two methods, one due to Shannon, the other due to Chaitin. And they don't give the same answer. Moreover the Chaitin method depends on having an agreed UTM, and you have not specified which UTM you are using. Generally, the choice of UTM is not important if one is looking at the asymptotic information density for infinite strings. But DNA is very finite.
And then you say "it is indeed abstruse information." Yet as far as I know, neither Shannon nor Chaitin used "abstruse" as a technical term.
Just being real writes:
One example that I have found useful that I picked up was that of tourists standing and observing Mount Rushmore. They recognize the faces from independent patterns (pictures from history books) which in turn initiate a specific response (recognition). Or another example I like is the combination lock.
Did either Shannon or Chaitin say how their theories of information relate to Mount Rushmore, or how they relate to combination locks? Or did any other scientists working with their definitions of information, connect them to Mount Rushmore or to combination locks?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 314 by Just being real, posted 10-04-2010 12:48 PM Just being real has not replied

nwr
Member
Posts: 6409
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 384 of 396 (587699)
10-20-2010 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 383 by AdminModulous
10-20-2010 9:40 AM


Re: Summaries....
I only have a few posts in this thread, though I have been following it.
My conclusion: The sensible suggestions for possible experiments on "creation science" appear to have all come from the evolutionist/scientist participants. I see only hand-waving and special pleading arguments from the creationists.

Jesus was a liberal hippie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 383 by AdminModulous, posted 10-20-2010 9:40 AM AdminModulous has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024