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Author Topic:   Can we accelerate evolution?
rueh
Member (Idle past 3090 days)
Posts: 382
From: universal city tx
Joined: 03-03-2008


Message 57 of 77 (615385)
05-12-2011 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Alfred Maddenstein
05-12-2011 3:12 PM


Alfred Maddenstein writes:
The theory does not describe any directional process leading from point A to some definite point B. So there could not be any rates of motion applied in its description at all. There is nothing to accelerate towards anything as the process has no goal to reach in any motion at all, if the theory is correct.
With natural selection that is true. I think Dogmafood was referring to artificial selection though. Where we can dictate the desired outcome.

'Qui non intelligit, aut taceat, aut discat'
The mind is like a parachute. It only works when it is open.-FZ
The industrial revolution, flipped a bitch on evolution.-NOFX

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 05-12-2011 3:12 PM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 05-12-2011 4:28 PM rueh has replied
 Message 63 by Taq, posted 05-13-2011 12:33 PM rueh has replied

  
rueh
Member (Idle past 3090 days)
Posts: 382
From: universal city tx
Joined: 03-03-2008


Message 64 of 77 (615492)
05-13-2011 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Taq
05-13-2011 12:33 PM


Taq writes:
With artificial selection you are blind to the genetic sequence that underpins the phenotype.
I see your point as to how with artificial selection through selective breeding you are just changing the enviroment and selecting for desired traits as opposed to direct manipulation of gene sequences. Are you not still in effect performing "selection" by determing which genes are manipulated though?

'Qui non intelligit, aut taceat, aut discat'
The mind is like a parachute. It only works when it is open.-FZ
The industrial revolution, flipped a bitch on evolution.-NOFX

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Taq, posted 05-13-2011 12:33 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Taq, posted 05-13-2011 3:36 PM rueh has not replied
 Message 68 by Dogmafood, posted 05-14-2011 2:45 PM rueh has not replied

  
rueh
Member (Idle past 3090 days)
Posts: 382
From: universal city tx
Joined: 03-03-2008


Message 65 of 77 (615494)
05-13-2011 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Alfred Maddenstein
05-12-2011 4:28 PM


That, of course, can and has been done in all cases of breeding. Yet no acceleration takes place as the artificial selection introduces the very directional motion first which without it is totally absent. The natural selection is not in any hurry in any direction whatsoever so cannot be possibly sped up.
rueh writes:
Alfred Maddenstein writes:
The theory does not describe any directional process leading from point A to some definite point B. So there could not be any rates of motion applied in its description at all. There is nothing to accelerate towards anything as the process has no goal to reach in any motion at all, if the theory is correct.
With natural selection that is true. I think Dogmafood was referring to artificial selection though. Where we can dictate the desired outcome.
That, of course, can and has been done in all cases of breeding. Yet no acceleration takes place as the artificial selection introduces the very directional motion first which without it is totally absent. The natural selection is not in any hurry in any direction whatsoever so cannot be possibly sped up.
I think that's only true if we consider that evolution by means of natural selection has no desired outcome. It is only selecting for what works best at the time. So than we cannot speed up anything if we do not know where the finish line is. However with artificial selection we can establish our own desired end point and through selective breeding or gene manipulation work to achieve those goals at a faster rate than natural selection could produce on its own. So in essence it is sped up in comparison to the likelihood of the desired outcome arising through natural means.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 05-12-2011 4:28 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not replied

  
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