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Author Topic:   archaeology and evolution
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 46 of 96 (574668)
08-17-2010 8:10 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by archaeologist
08-17-2010 4:56 AM


Hi Archaeologist!
Could you please explain how you reconcile this statement:
yet i have not insulted nor treated anybody badly
With this one:
when you all get honest let me know.
Thanks!
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by archaeologist, posted 08-17-2010 4:56 AM archaeologist has not replied

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 47 of 96 (574678)
08-17-2010 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by archaeologist
08-17-2010 7:35 AM


Re: Dragons
Hi pretend-archaeologist,
insults gets you no reply except this note.
Where did I insult you? I can assure you, should I choose to insult you, it will be rather more obvious than that.
Is it because I called you out on your pretence of being an archaeologist? Because you're fooling no-one with that. You are no archaeologist. Care to dispute that? If so, please provide us with a summary of your professional qualifications and some details of your recent work.
That aside, I am still keen to hear your reasoning on why you should be so keen to ridicule stories of dragons, when the Bible itself talks of dragons. If you want to answer it that is. If you prefer, you could always keep on dodging the question.
Mutate and Survive
Edited by Granny Magda, : No reason given.

"A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod

This message is a reply to:
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Jumped Up Chimpanzee
Member (Idle past 4942 days)
Posts: 572
From: UK
Joined: 10-22-2009


Message 48 of 96 (574680)
08-17-2010 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by archaeologist
08-17-2010 7:33 AM


you all think you think logically but you don't. with all the eye witnesses still alive, there was no need for the disciples to write it down but as the church grew, the need for a written record grew. it is not hard to see why the delay and it was not decades later, you would be lucky if it were 2.
And if the vast majority of those around at the time did not agree there was any resurrection, or at least did not witness anything, they wouldn't bother to write anything down as long as they were still alive in order to contradict a few people they probably regarded as somewhat eccentric.
A soldier given the lowly job of guarding a grave would not be thinking, "We'd better write down something to contradict what these nutters are saying, because in twenty or thirty years time when most of us are dead these rumours might still be going round and someone might write them down as if they were true, and in 2000 years time people might still believe it."
And the soldiers would definitely not have written anything down in the extremely likely event that they never existed.

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 49 of 96 (574681)
08-17-2010 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by archaeologist
08-17-2010 7:19 AM


people did not like it when i used conservipedia, butit was handy. i do not like it when people use wikipedia. that is one of the worst references anyone could use.
You truly are as uneducated as you act aren't you. Heck I bet you don't even have a Bob Jones degree.
Let me spell it out for you. Conservapedia just spout nonsense. They do not refer to original documents. If you knew anything about research you would see that caffeine referenced info from The Oxford Companion to Archaeology that was in the wiki article.
There is even a footnote for this.
quote:
^ Fagan, Brian M., and Charlotte Beck, The Oxford Companion to Archeology, entry on the "Dead sea scrolls", Oxford University Press, 1996
Funny how you selective quoted from you source on the dead sea scrolls. Here is the complete sentence.
quote:
In sum, the general scholarly view today places the Qumran Scrolls roughly between 200BCE and 70CE, with a small portion of the texts possibly stretching back to the 3rd century BCE and the bulk of the extant material dating to the first century BCE, i.e. late Hasmonaean, early Herodian in the jargon of palaeographers.
Complete Dead Sea Scrolls
I see you even changed the authors BCE and CE to BC and AD. How cute.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
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thingamabob
Junior Member (Idle past 2616 days)
Posts: 23
From: New Jerusalem
Joined: 02-26-2009


Message 50 of 96 (574683)
08-17-2010 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee
08-17-2010 5:21 AM


Jumped Up Chimpanzee writes:
What is incredible, if the resurection and other miracles were true, is that NOBODY wrote down anything at all about these events until several DECADES later!
Was Josephus a myth?
He did write about those events.
thing,

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 51 of 96 (574685)
08-17-2010 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by thingamabob
08-17-2010 9:28 AM


thingamabob writes:
Was Josephus a myth?
He did write about those events.
1) No, he didn't. Or it's very dubious at best.
2) That was, as JUC said, DECADES later.

This message is a reply to:
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 52 of 96 (574687)
08-17-2010 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by thingamabob
08-17-2010 9:28 AM


It is pretty debatable whether or not it was Josephus who wrote about it. Many say that it was a later addition to his work by someone else: a forgery.
Edited by hooah212002, : grammar

"A still more glorious dawn awaits
Not a sunrise, but a galaxy rise
A morning filled with 400 billion suns
The rising of the milky way"
-Carl Sagan

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 53 of 96 (574688)
08-17-2010 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by thingamabob
08-17-2010 9:28 AM


Was Josephus a myth?
He did write about those events.
Leaving aside the fact that the Testimonium Flavianum is a forgery or interpolation, something that you may wish to debate, it is absolutely indisputable that Josephus was born around 37 AD (after the date usually assigned to the crucifixion) and that the Antiquities of the Jews was written in the thirteenth year of Domitian, i.e. 93/94 AD.
So even if Josephus did write the Testimonium Flavianum, which he didn't, Jumped Up Chimpanzee would still be correct in saying that it was several decades later.

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Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 54 of 96 (574689)
08-17-2010 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Dr Adequate
08-17-2010 9:35 AM


So even if Josephus did write the Testimonium Flavianum, which he didn't, Jumped Up Chimpanzee would still be correct in saying that it was several decades later.
Or in laymen's terms 60 years after the supposed date.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 348 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 55 of 96 (574690)
08-17-2010 9:44 AM


"A man hears what he wants to hear and he disregards the rest." S & G
There is a profound lesson in this thread somewhere. What does it show us about how we communicate?
16 tonnes of logic will not open the vault that is Archies mind. We need the 2 oz key.

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 56 of 96 (574693)
08-17-2010 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Dr Adequate
08-17-2010 9:35 AM


Wow, I hadn't heard that the entire work was a forgery. I thought it was just the jesus bits.

"A still more glorious dawn awaits
Not a sunrise, but a galaxy rise
A morning filled with 400 billion suns
The rising of the milky way"
-Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-17-2010 9:35 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 57 of 96 (574696)
08-17-2010 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by hooah212002
08-17-2010 10:00 AM


Wow, I hadn't heard that the entire work was a forgery. I thought it was just the jesus bits.
The Testimonium Flavianum is the longer of the two "Jesus bits" in the Antiquities of the Jews, it isn't a separate work.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by hooah212002, posted 08-17-2010 10:00 AM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 58 of 96 (574698)
08-17-2010 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by hooah212002
08-17-2010 10:00 AM


The Testimonium Flavianum
The "Testimonium Flavianum" is just a portion of The Antiquities of the Jews.
This is it.
quote:
Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.
Earl Doherty has a fantastic analysis of Josephus and the interpolations.
Josephus Unbound
Edited by Theodoric, : Subtitle added

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 59 of 96 (574699)
08-17-2010 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Dr Adequate
08-17-2010 10:19 AM


Right you are. Thanks for the correction. I admittedly haven't read it, but briefly perused it and have only heard of the Testimonium Flavianum being referenced, not the entire work.

"A still more glorious dawn awaits
Not a sunrise, but a galaxy rise
A morning filled with 400 billion suns
The rising of the milky way"
-Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-17-2010 10:19 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 60 of 96 (574701)
08-17-2010 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Theodoric
08-17-2010 10:26 AM


Re: The Testimonium Flavianum
It's always a sign of a good day when you learn something so early, even when it comes at the expense of looking like a buffoon.

"A still more glorious dawn awaits
Not a sunrise, but a galaxy rise
A morning filled with 400 billion suns
The rising of the milky way"
-Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Theodoric, posted 08-17-2010 10:26 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
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