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Author Topic:   Obama supports Ground Zero mosque. Religious freedom or is he being too PC?
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 226 of 406 (577071)
08-27-2010 3:07 AM
Reply to: Message 225 by Minnemooseus
08-27-2010 2:10 AM


Re: South Park and Mo
Minnemooseus writes:
And that said, might depicting Mo in a bear costume (I believe) actually be funnier and a greater social commentary in the situation context?
It gets even better. They had a bear costume walking around in which they said was Mohammed. Pissed off Muslims ensued. However, in the very next episode it was revealed that it was actually Santa Clause in the suit, impersonating Mohammed. Making this joke very mulitlayered. First of all, it shows of course the hypocrisy of Muslims, for they weren't even depicting Mohammed, the Muslims just though they were. Second, and perhaps even funnier, is the deeper underlying joke. They had a fictional character impersonate Mohammed, essentially equating the two. I don't think the Muslims picked up on that one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-27-2010 2:10 AM Minnemooseus has not replied

Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 227 of 406 (577072)
08-27-2010 3:23 AM
Reply to: Message 225 by Minnemooseus
08-27-2010 2:10 AM


Minnemooseus responds to me:
quote:
That said, the Muslim branch of Crazy Inc. does have a pretty bad recent record of violent reactions to visual depictions of might Mo.
And that lets the Christian crazies off the hook how? The biggest terrorist act that ever took place in the US before 9/11 was the destruction of the Federal Building in Oklahoma...carried out by a Christian. Why would Comedy Central go nuts over the Muslim whack jobs and not the Christian whack jobs?
Most terrorist attacks in this country take place at the hands of Christians. Except for one really big example, there haven't been that many terrorist attacks by Muslims here in the US. Exactly what threat did CC think existed?
quote:
Or have I overlook some Christian based riots in recent times?
You've overlooked quite a lot. Again, most acts of terrorism here in the US are carried out at the hands of Christians. Oklahoma City, Atlanta Olympics, Jewish school shootings, murder of Tiller (in church!) and other abortion providers, Terry Schiavo where Christians invaded a nursing home. A Muslim cab driver was just attacked in New York City by a Christian. A black construction worker who just happened to be passing by the Park51 location on his way to work and had a do-rag on his head was accosted by the crowd who thought he was Muslim.
How do you not know any of this? Part of it may be because when Christians do it, we don't call it "terrorism." But surely you remember these events, yes?
quote:
Please, no long winded replies to this message.
You mean I shouldn't take your comments seriously and respond to them in kind?

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-27-2010 2:10 AM Minnemooseus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 228 by Omnivorous, posted 08-27-2010 8:04 AM Rrhain has not replied
 Message 233 by onifre, posted 08-27-2010 11:10 AM Rrhain has not replied
 Message 244 by Tram law, posted 08-29-2010 12:20 PM Rrhain has not replied
 Message 247 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-29-2010 3:00 PM Rrhain has replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 228 of 406 (577101)
08-27-2010 8:04 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by Rrhain
08-27-2010 3:23 AM


99.9% correct
He was wearing an Under Armour cap, not a do-rag. They're popular among U.S. pro athletes.
Other than that, I couldn't agree more.

Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Rrhain, posted 08-27-2010 3:23 AM Rrhain has not replied

onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 229 of 406 (577152)
08-27-2010 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 221 by Rrhain
08-27-2010 12:36 AM


How do we make the decision of who gets to be the one(s) to have to suck it up?
That would depend of course on what we're talking about. On stage, I don't make a decision to exclude anyone. I attack everyone equally. On TV it would be up to the network to decide who they want to offend and who they don't.
Are there certain ethical rules you are following? If so, what are they? How did you manage to determine who has to go away without getting what they wanted?
No rules, just self-awareness that certain things when said will offend, I'd call that common sense. I equally offend everyone. For a TV network, that's their decision.
Nothing is satisfactory to everybody so there will always be somebody who would rather you not do what you just did. So since that is the case, why should anybody think that this particular instance is any different?
I haven't, my position, if you read my OP, is that I think they should build the mosque. My friend made the point that often an exception is made as to not offend Muslims, like in the case with Comedy Central and at Yale with the Danish cartoons - I provided links to those examples.
Others here, including yourself, have pointed out that it's not the same thing. And I agree.
Oni writes:
Those who would not like to see the image of the prophet on TV, in a cartoon, etc.
Rrhain writes:
But who are they? Some anonymous, unknown nobody whom you can't identify?
The best pat is you actually answer this by acknowledging who "they" are. Everyone knows and can follow what I mean, except you, but not really, 'cause look:
Rrhain writes:
Comedy Central had no problem standing up to Christian groups who were not happy with that way South Park handled Christianity, but they suddenly turn into quivering lumps of Jell-O when faced with threats from some Muslims.
All of a sudden you know that Muslims threatened Comedy Central, so you know who the "they" are.
No, they'll just blow up the Oklahoma Federal Building, wander into Jewish schools and start shooting people, bomb the Olympics, kill doctors who peform abortions, etc., etc.
The people who are protesting the mosque did that?
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Rrhain, posted 08-27-2010 12:36 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by Rrhain, posted 08-28-2010 11:54 PM onifre has replied

onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 230 of 406 (577154)
08-27-2010 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 223 by Rrhain
08-27-2010 12:48 AM


You have long since abandoned your "friend's" position and started talking about your own position
Nope, still my friends position. I totally support the building of the mosque.
Why do you require other people to do your homework for you?
Please provide a link....
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Rrhain, posted 08-27-2010 12:48 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 242 by Rrhain, posted 08-28-2010 11:55 PM onifre has not replied

onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 231 of 406 (577157)
08-27-2010 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 224 by Rrhain
08-27-2010 1:09 AM


The person who is looking for fairness will never go away sad if it's fair. They'll only be sad if it's unfair.
You misunderstand. I mean fair as in everyone, every group, religion, institution, etc., will have to deal with their feelings being hurt, because no punches are held back.
However, in the case with Comedy Central showing Jesus shitting on the flag, but in the same episode they didn't allow Matt and Trey to show the image of the prophet, that is not fair. And, the one episode that did show it, has since been removed from their website, yet Jesus shitting on the flag remains. This again isn't fair. You're right that it's corporate bullshit, but it is a fact that it was done in that manner.
In this case, Christians are offended by the image of Jesus shitting on the flag but Muslims aren't because special concern was shown to them.
Oni writes:
And if I wanted people to shut the fuck up, why would I be here debating you and others?
Rrhain writes:
Do you really want an answer to that? I've seen the baiting you've been attempting.
Do I or do I not debate on this forum with people who disagree with me? I bait you cause you're an easy target. Also cause it's fun to poke fun at you and some of the ridiculous arguments yuo've made in the past. But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy the debate. I always reply to you, knowing that you'll be a condescending douch most of the time. But I still enjoy it.
So, don't shut the fuck up, continue displaying your douchyness and I'll keep baiting you.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by Rrhain, posted 08-27-2010 1:09 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by jar, posted 08-27-2010 11:09 AM onifre has replied
 Message 243 by Rrhain, posted 08-29-2010 12:06 AM onifre has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 232 of 406 (577160)
08-27-2010 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 231 by onifre
08-27-2010 11:04 AM


onifre writes:
You misunderstand. I mean fair as in everyone, every group, religion, institution, etc., will have to deal with their feelings being hurt, because no punches are held back.
That was called vaudeville and I was lucky enough to have experienced it.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by onifre, posted 08-27-2010 11:04 AM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by onifre, posted 08-27-2010 11:11 AM jar has replied

onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 233 of 406 (577161)
08-27-2010 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by Rrhain
08-27-2010 3:23 AM


Moose writes:
Please, no long winded replies to this message.
Rrhain writes:
You mean I shouldn't take your comments seriously and respond to them in kind?
No, Moose means, don't go off into your typical long-winded replys that become redundant half way through the post. Just answer in short posts so that we don't have to set aside an hour of our day to read and respond to your long-winded posts.
Notice it's not just me, lots of members seem to think your posts are long-winded. And I can't wait for your long-winded reponse to this post.
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Rrhain, posted 08-27-2010 3:23 AM Rrhain has not replied

onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 234 of 406 (577163)
08-27-2010 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 232 by jar
08-27-2010 11:09 AM


That was called vaudeville and I was lucky enough to have experienced it.
I'm a huge fan of the Marx brothers. You are a lucky person to have experienced it...but fuck are you old!
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by jar, posted 08-27-2010 11:09 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by jar, posted 08-27-2010 11:13 AM onifre has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 235 of 406 (577164)
08-27-2010 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 234 by onifre
08-27-2010 11:11 AM


Vaudeville hung on until the fifties, maybe even early sixties in Baltimore.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by onifre, posted 08-27-2010 11:11 AM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by onifre, posted 08-27-2010 12:53 PM jar has not replied

onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 236 of 406 (577191)
08-27-2010 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by jar
08-27-2010 11:13 AM


Vaudeville hung on until the fifties, maybe even early sixties in Baltimore.
I did not know that. Cool... So you're kinda old.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by jar, posted 08-27-2010 11:13 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by Omnivorous, posted 08-27-2010 2:39 PM onifre has replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 237 of 406 (577205)
08-27-2010 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 236 by onifre
08-27-2010 12:53 PM


jar ain't old...
We had vaudeville in Indy in the 50s, but it was pretty uptown stuff, and I never saw it live.
But we lived three houses from the black ghetto border and just a block down the alley from a juke joint that sometimes booked minstrel shows in the black park next door. Some of us would climb giant sycamore trees to watch.
But when blues gigs were on, the alley was packed with white kids, dancing, singing along, smoking...cigarettes . You could see what was coming...a collapse of the racial barriers that eventually led to the conditions permitting Obama's presidency.
The civil rights era inspired much of the world with our ability to get past our history of slavery and Jim Crow.
That's why we need Muslim neighbors now and mosques in our neighborhoods. Our ability to fuse tolerance with assimilation is ultimately the most effective way to confound and defeat Islamic terrorists--and it would take a century to accomplish that in separatist conditions.
We dont' have that kind of time. Displays of hate give 1.1 billion Muslims good reason to believe we can offer them nothing but contempt and prejudice.
Oh yeah...
I'm kinda old. Jar is immortal.

Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by onifre, posted 08-27-2010 12:53 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by onifre, posted 08-27-2010 3:58 PM Omnivorous has replied

onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 238 of 406 (577208)
08-27-2010 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by Omnivorous
08-27-2010 2:39 PM


Re: jar ain't old...
That's why we need Muslim neighbors now and mosques in our neighborhoods.
I can appreciate the need for multi-cultural neighborhoods, and I can appreciate that doing so breeds tolerance. With that said, I doubt we need more churches, mosques, religious institutions that, while culturally appealing, are inherenty useless for a progressive society.
Displays of hate give 1.1 billion Muslims good reason to believe we can offer them nothing but contempt and prejudice.
We don't need the media and a few protesters to do that, our government has done a fine job of that. In fact, it's the reason there is a mosque being built near "Ground Zero" and not the World Trade Center towers.
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by Omnivorous, posted 08-27-2010 2:39 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by Omnivorous, posted 08-27-2010 5:27 PM onifre has seen this message but not replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 239 of 406 (577223)
08-27-2010 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by onifre
08-27-2010 3:58 PM


Re: jar ain't old...
I doubt we need more churches, mosques, religious institutions that, while culturally appealing, are inherenty useless for a progressive society.
There is no nation-sized group of non-religious people: you don't get Muslims without mosques any more than you get Jews without synagogues or blacks without Baptist churches. You can't actually tolerate people without tolerating their "useless" institutions.
And if we lived in a truly progressive society, we wouldn't need to have this conversation.
We don't need the media and a few protesters to do that, our government has done a fine job of that.
I agree that our government has done a fine job of persuading Muslims that we are at war with Islam--that's why it's so important to distinguish between our runaway rulers and ourselves.
My experience overseas has been that folks distinguish between a people and their government. I sure don't identify with mine.
The current frenzy of anti-Muslim, anti-Mosque protests and screeds, constitutes more than "a few protesters." If you doubt the impact of the NY situation on Muslims globally, check out a few Islamic news sites or chat rooms.
In fact, it's the reason there is a mosque being built near "Ground Zero" and not the World Trade Center towers.
I genuinely don't understand what you mean by that, but:
"Ground Zero" (trademark pending) is two blocks away, and nothing two blocks away is "near" in NY. The equally ugly protests against mosques around the country show that proximity to GZ is irrelevant to religious bigots.
It's not a mosque.
The community center is the brain-child of a group of Muslims, Christians and Jews, who think, as I do, that the best answer to terrorist propaganda is to prove them wrong.
The failure to rebuild at the WTC site is primarily due to conflict between the corporate greed for profit and the political greed for glory.

Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by onifre, posted 08-27-2010 3:58 PM onifre has seen this message but not replied

hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 240 of 406 (577241)
08-27-2010 6:50 PM


In reference to the naming of the Center......
I had just realized that a number of people had been referring to this as "The Cordoba House". As I was listening to NPR on my way home from work, a caller called in saying that that is what was being protested (given that the nature of the name is denoting "conquest" in some fashion). So I decided to look it up for myself. It turns out, early this month the developers decided to name it Park51 instead.
source
More Sauce
Terrorist Sauce

Your god believes in Unicorns

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