Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Obama supports Ground Zero mosque. Religious freedom or is he being too PC?
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 108 of 406 (576118)
08-22-2010 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by jar
08-22-2010 9:07 PM


I see no indication that those building the place are insensitive. I don't see them saying that the folks that are upset should not speak out or that they don't understand that folk are upset.
Perhaps not insensitive, just arrogant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by jar, posted 08-22-2010 9:07 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by onifre, posted 08-22-2010 9:13 PM Coyote has not replied
 Message 111 by jar, posted 08-22-2010 9:14 PM Coyote has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 116 of 406 (576129)
08-22-2010 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by jar
08-22-2010 9:15 PM


How is it insensitive?
How is it any different then all the other building that get built despite there being some opposition?
It's all about symbolism.
There was the symbolism of Arabs dancing in the streets when the towers were destroyed.
Now there is the symbolism of building a mosque on the same location.
Are you aware that Muslims built a mosque on the site of a Catholic church in Cordoba to celebrate the Muslim conquest of Spain? That was the same type of symbolism.
How is it that you can't see this? And are so insensitive toward those who can?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by jar, posted 08-22-2010 9:15 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by jar, posted 08-22-2010 9:31 PM Coyote has not replied
 Message 162 by Rrhain, posted 08-23-2010 5:51 PM Coyote has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 123 of 406 (576149)
08-22-2010 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by crashfrog
08-22-2010 10:13 PM


Cordoba
Did anyone notice the name?
I posted the information about building a mosque on the church in Cordoba, Spain as a symbol of taking that territory.
Is it just a coincidence that this mosque is also named Cordoba?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by crashfrog, posted 08-22-2010 10:13 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by jar, posted 08-22-2010 10:25 PM Coyote has not replied
 Message 125 by crashfrog, posted 08-22-2010 10:27 PM Coyote has replied
 Message 138 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-23-2010 4:52 AM Coyote has not replied
 Message 149 by Tram law, posted 08-23-2010 3:21 PM Coyote has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 127 of 406 (576153)
08-22-2010 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by crashfrog
08-22-2010 10:27 PM


Re: Cordoba
No, it's named Cordoba precisely in reference to the Spanish community of Cordoba, which was for centuries a place where Muslims, Christians, and Jews co-habited peacefully.
From a BBC website:
The alternative view to the Golden Age of Tolerance is that Jews and Christians were severely restricted in Muslim Spain, by being forced to live in a state of 'dhimmitude'. (A dhimmi is a non-Muslim living in an Islamic state who is not a slave, but does not have the same rights as a Muslim living in the same state.)
In Islamic Spain, Jews and Christians were tolerated if they:
* acknowledged Islamic superiority
* accepted Islamic power
* paid a tax called Jizya to the Muslim rulers and sometimes paid higher rates of other taxes
* avoided blasphemy
* did not try to convert Muslims
* complied with the rules laid down by the authorities. These included:
o restrictions on clothing and the need to wear a special badge
o restrictions on building synagogues and churches
o not allowed to carry weapons
o could not receive an inheritance from a Muslim
o could not bequeath anything to a Muslim
o could not own a Muslim slave
o a dhimmi man could not marry a Muslim woman (but the reverse was acceptable)
o a dhimmi could not give evidence in an Islamic court
o dhimmis would get lower compensation than Muslims for the same injury

Thanks, but no thanks.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by crashfrog, posted 08-22-2010 10:27 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by crashfrog, posted 08-22-2010 10:45 PM Coyote has replied
 Message 139 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-23-2010 6:01 AM Coyote has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 131 of 406 (576158)
08-22-2010 11:11 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by crashfrog
08-22-2010 10:45 PM


Re: Cordoba
And what is the evidence for that "alternative view", aside from anti-Muslim animus?
dhimmitude... Look it up.
I for one choose not to live under such rules.
Nor any other form of religious fundamentalism.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by crashfrog, posted 08-22-2010 10:45 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by crashfrog, posted 08-22-2010 11:46 PM Coyote has replied
 Message 140 by jar, posted 08-23-2010 9:58 AM Coyote has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 134 of 406 (576163)
08-22-2010 11:52 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by crashfrog
08-22-2010 11:46 PM


Re: Cordoba
dhimmitude... Look it up.
That's a word in English. Why do you think it describes something that happened in medieval Spain?
Dhimmitude is a neologism first found in French denoting an attitude of concession, surrender and appeasement towards Islamic demands. Source.
Check it out. You might learn something.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by crashfrog, posted 08-22-2010 11:46 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by crashfrog, posted 08-22-2010 11:55 PM Coyote has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 286 of 406 (578922)
09-03-2010 1:10 AM
Reply to: Message 285 by Nij
09-03-2010 12:47 AM


Re: Opening date of the Mosque
So, why are you aggressive towards somebody you are not in conflict with? And why do you on one hand agree that not all Muslims are terrorist, yet on the other imply that you are at war with all Muslims?
It might help if fewer Muslims were issuing fatwas and vowing to destroy the Great Satan; video of folks dancing in the street when the trade towers went down didn't help.
Then there are the recent reports of rapes of non-Muslims and killings of Christians in Muslim areas in several areas of the world.
And don't forget the violent riots around the world because of the cartoons depicting their prophet.
If Muslims truly are not aggressive towards non-Muslims, and a religion of peace, perhaps they should start acting like it sometime???

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Nij, posted 09-03-2010 12:47 AM Nij has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 287 by Omnivorous, posted 09-03-2010 1:31 AM Coyote has seen this message but not replied
 Message 288 by Nij, posted 09-03-2010 2:55 AM Coyote has seen this message but not replied
 Message 312 by Rrhain, posted 09-04-2010 3:41 AM Coyote has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 305 of 406 (579022)
09-03-2010 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 304 by jar
09-03-2010 10:25 AM


Re: Who is the enemy?
Who is the enemy? This guy, for one:
AMSTERDAM (Reuters) — A well-known Australian Muslim cleric has called for the beheading of Dutch anti-Islamic politician Geert Wilders, a newspaper said on Friday. ... Source

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by jar, posted 09-03-2010 10:25 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 307 by jar, posted 09-03-2010 11:45 AM Coyote has replied
 Message 318 by Rrhain, posted 09-04-2010 4:45 AM Coyote has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 308 of 406 (579029)
09-03-2010 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 307 by jar
09-03-2010 11:45 AM


Re: Who is the enemy?
I'm sorry but exactly how is that person "The Enemy"?
Take a wild guess. Really stretch your imagination and see if you can come up with some reason.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 307 by jar, posted 09-03-2010 11:45 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 309 by jar, posted 09-03-2010 11:51 AM Coyote has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 328 of 406 (579565)
09-05-2010 2:06 AM
Reply to: Message 327 by AZPaul3
09-05-2010 2:01 AM


Re: Material v Motivation
Taz and Hundard strike me as people with their heads on straight. I would not have expected them to be so hateful, which led me to wonder if they truly understood the significance of such an action.
Many of us found the 9/11 events pretty hateful as well, and are aware that those attacks were inspired by a particular religious belief and the hatred it engendered.
Sometimes we wonder why we should worry overmuch about the sensitivities of the parent group that promulgates those beliefs and that hatred.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 327 by AZPaul3, posted 09-05-2010 2:01 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 329 by AZPaul3, posted 09-05-2010 2:15 AM Coyote has seen this message but not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 356 of 406 (580059)
09-07-2010 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 355 by AZPaul3
09-07-2010 1:01 PM


Re: But the point is
But the western mind has little appreciation for such foreign history and its effects on culture.
Seems the Muslim mind has little appreciation for such things as well.
Running airplanes into buildings and a host of other actions from various Muslim strongholds around the world have caused a lot of the problems Muslims are now facing in the US.
Many people don't want to see what is happening in France, with no-go areas reserved for Muslims only, happen here. Nor do people appreciate how much other religious are violently treated when Muslims become dominant. Examples of this are easy to find.
Sensitivity/diversity is a two-way street.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 355 by AZPaul3, posted 09-07-2010 1:01 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 358 by jar, posted 09-07-2010 1:20 PM Coyote has not replied
 Message 359 by crashfrog, posted 09-07-2010 1:21 PM Coyote has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 360 of 406 (580063)
09-07-2010 1:28 PM


Let me repeat: Sensitivity/diversity is a two-way street.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Replies to this message:
 Message 364 by Rrhain, posted 09-07-2010 2:14 PM Coyote has replied
 Message 366 by crashfrog, posted 09-07-2010 2:51 PM Coyote has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 365 of 406 (580073)
09-07-2010 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 364 by Rrhain
09-07-2010 2:14 PM


quote:
Let me repeat: Sensitivity/diversity is a two-way street.
So why do you only complain when Muslims do it? Where is your outrage when Christians do it?
I do. But that would be off topic on this thread.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by Rrhain, posted 09-07-2010 2:14 PM Rrhain has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 370 by Adminnemooseus, posted 09-07-2010 3:45 PM Coyote has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 402 of 406 (580510)
09-09-2010 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 401 by riVeRraT
09-09-2010 2:13 PM


Re: wtf
There are a lot of countries in Africa and elsewhere where they don't burn bibles, they burn the whole churches.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 401 by riVeRraT, posted 09-09-2010 2:13 PM riVeRraT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 404 by Omnivorous, posted 09-09-2010 2:55 PM Coyote has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024