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Author Topic:   Obama supports Ground Zero mosque. Religious freedom or is he being too PC?
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 207 of 406 (576737)
08-25-2010 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by riVeRraT
08-25-2010 12:02 PM


Re: Opening date of the Mosque
Hi, rat.
I heard that, too.
It's obviously anti-Islamic propaganda--no 13-story building goes up in NY in one year, and they haven't even broken ground yet.

Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by riVeRraT, posted 08-25-2010 12:02 PM riVeRraT has not replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 228 of 406 (577101)
08-27-2010 8:04 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by Rrhain
08-27-2010 3:23 AM


99.9% correct
He was wearing an Under Armour cap, not a do-rag. They're popular among U.S. pro athletes.
Other than that, I couldn't agree more.

Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Rrhain, posted 08-27-2010 3:23 AM Rrhain has not replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 237 of 406 (577205)
08-27-2010 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 236 by onifre
08-27-2010 12:53 PM


jar ain't old...
We had vaudeville in Indy in the 50s, but it was pretty uptown stuff, and I never saw it live.
But we lived three houses from the black ghetto border and just a block down the alley from a juke joint that sometimes booked minstrel shows in the black park next door. Some of us would climb giant sycamore trees to watch.
But when blues gigs were on, the alley was packed with white kids, dancing, singing along, smoking...cigarettes . You could see what was coming...a collapse of the racial barriers that eventually led to the conditions permitting Obama's presidency.
The civil rights era inspired much of the world with our ability to get past our history of slavery and Jim Crow.
That's why we need Muslim neighbors now and mosques in our neighborhoods. Our ability to fuse tolerance with assimilation is ultimately the most effective way to confound and defeat Islamic terrorists--and it would take a century to accomplish that in separatist conditions.
We dont' have that kind of time. Displays of hate give 1.1 billion Muslims good reason to believe we can offer them nothing but contempt and prejudice.
Oh yeah...
I'm kinda old. Jar is immortal.

Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by onifre, posted 08-27-2010 12:53 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by onifre, posted 08-27-2010 3:58 PM Omnivorous has replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 239 of 406 (577223)
08-27-2010 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by onifre
08-27-2010 3:58 PM


Re: jar ain't old...
I doubt we need more churches, mosques, religious institutions that, while culturally appealing, are inherenty useless for a progressive society.
There is no nation-sized group of non-religious people: you don't get Muslims without mosques any more than you get Jews without synagogues or blacks without Baptist churches. You can't actually tolerate people without tolerating their "useless" institutions.
And if we lived in a truly progressive society, we wouldn't need to have this conversation.
We don't need the media and a few protesters to do that, our government has done a fine job of that.
I agree that our government has done a fine job of persuading Muslims that we are at war with Islam--that's why it's so important to distinguish between our runaway rulers and ourselves.
My experience overseas has been that folks distinguish between a people and their government. I sure don't identify with mine.
The current frenzy of anti-Muslim, anti-Mosque protests and screeds, constitutes more than "a few protesters." If you doubt the impact of the NY situation on Muslims globally, check out a few Islamic news sites or chat rooms.
In fact, it's the reason there is a mosque being built near "Ground Zero" and not the World Trade Center towers.
I genuinely don't understand what you mean by that, but:
"Ground Zero" (trademark pending) is two blocks away, and nothing two blocks away is "near" in NY. The equally ugly protests against mosques around the country show that proximity to GZ is irrelevant to religious bigots.
It's not a mosque.
The community center is the brain-child of a group of Muslims, Christians and Jews, who think, as I do, that the best answer to terrorist propaganda is to prove them wrong.
The failure to rebuild at the WTC site is primarily due to conflict between the corporate greed for profit and the political greed for glory.

Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by onifre, posted 08-27-2010 3:58 PM onifre has seen this message but not replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 268 of 406 (578893)
09-02-2010 11:32 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by riVeRraT
09-02-2010 11:24 PM


Re: Opening date of the Mosque
Some of that money came from the same place Fox News' money came from--a Saudi sheik. But he must be okay, since Fox has not denounced him.
Fox did a fine segment where they agonized about the Saudi funding, in the darkest terms, without revealing he owned a good piece of their sorry butts: talk about having it both ways.
Of course, some of that money came from the Christians, Jews, and just regular Muslim Americans who support the center.
Nobody ever seems to wonder where Christian money came from...
Edited by Omnivorous, : HR/LF

Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by riVeRraT, posted 09-02-2010 11:24 PM riVeRraT has not replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 269 of 406 (578894)
09-02-2010 11:35 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by riVeRraT
09-02-2010 11:28 PM


If you have nothing to hide, you don't need rights.
An intense investigation of Beck, Limbaugh and Palin would calm me considerably.
Oh, and, um...you.
That okay with you?

Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by riVeRraT, posted 09-02-2010 11:28 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by riVeRraT, posted 09-03-2010 12:00 AM Omnivorous has replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 281 of 406 (578912)
09-03-2010 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 276 by riVeRraT
09-03-2010 12:00 AM


Re: If you have nothing to hide, you don't need rights.
Hi, riVeRrat.
You know, I never told you that I was a riverrat when I was a kid.
That's what they called folks who lived in the Bottoms, the flood plain between Eagle Creek and White River in Naptown; blacks and white trash, mostly. Funny, huh?
Anyway, so, no, I don't mean:
riVeRrat writes:
Highly ok.
The first two are complete idiots, the third is half-2/3rds an idiot IMO. They disrupt the coutry with there stupidness.
I don't really want Beck, Limbaugh and Palin investigated; I don't really want you investigated. I don't want anyone investigated-- unless they personally have done something to merit investigation. I think we all have that right.
When people make the kind of argument I'm making to you, they're asking you to imagine being subject to investigations, with all the public and private contumny and shame that entails, for no other reason than who you are. Or imagine it happens to your children. Your mother. Your wife. Whoever you need to imagine in that situation before the painful travesty of it is clear to you.
That's all. I'm glad to see you're still here. You're the only other riverrat I've met online.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by riVeRraT, posted 09-03-2010 12:00 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 298 by riVeRraT, posted 09-03-2010 10:03 AM Omnivorous has not replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 282 of 406 (578913)
09-03-2010 12:27 AM
Reply to: Message 275 by Taz
09-02-2010 11:59 PM


Re: Opening date of the Mosque
Taz writes:
I'm going to tell them you got half a pound of drugs hidden up your butt.
If he has half a pound of drugs up his ass, he's mine.

Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by Taz, posted 09-02-2010 11:59 PM Taz has not replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 287 of 406 (578924)
09-03-2010 1:31 AM
Reply to: Message 286 by Coyote
09-03-2010 1:10 AM


Where's the peace train?
Yes.
But that's not a reason to abrogate the rights of Muslim Americans.
Still, yes: two facts don't cancel out. It's fair to ask where's the Peace Train, Yusuf Islam? We readily demand no less from Christians. Neither population has very good answers.
It's also fair to note that the folks who want to build the center epitomize what we apparently want from immigrants in the U.S.
The imam worked for Bush and works for Obama to promulgate more moderate views among Muslims overseas; his wife organizes for women's rights within Islam. They networked with Jews and Christians in New York to gain support and fellowship.
We can't discriminate against one religion because it's no better than the others--peace trains have never stopped at mosques or churches or temples. If they did, we'd already have peace.

Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Coyote, posted 09-03-2010 1:10 AM Coyote has seen this message but not replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 372 of 406 (580102)
09-07-2010 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 371 by nwr
09-07-2010 4:50 PM


Re: Summary
I am not a fan of religion, particularly the desert-baked sons of Abraham: Jews, Christians, Muslims.
It pains me to see that the question, "Obama supports Ground Zero mosque. Religious freedom or is he being too PC?" even merits discussion: Is a president being too PC when he keeps his oath to uphold the Constitution? As though we'd all prefer a president who picked and chose his Articles and Amendments. We had one of those; he didn't work out well.
I'm relieved that the preponderant view seems to be that Obama acted correctly to defend religious liberties.
As a vet, I'm particularly saddened by the folks in Florida. As Gen. Petraeus has suggested, they are going to cause needless deaths. Then they will take to the streets and cameras, waving their bloody hands, further inflaming both sides.
When you fight fire with fire, everything burns.

Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello
Real things always push back.
-William James

This message is a reply to:
 Message 371 by nwr, posted 09-07-2010 4:50 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 378 of 406 (580286)
09-08-2010 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 375 by riVeRraT
09-08-2010 7:07 AM


Muslim Ownership of Fox
Fox News reported on the troublesome nature of one person funding the Cordoba center, suggesting that the man had ties to terrorism.
Fox News was either evil or stupid (or both) for not mentioning that Alwaleed bin Talal, the Saudi in question, is News Corp.'s largest shareholder aside from Murdoch.
You can watch Jon Stewart air the Fox footage and take them to task here.
Fox News wanted to frighten you with a shadowy, nameless Muslim; they didn't want to name him--because then you could find out he owns their cynical butts.

Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello
Real things always push back.
-William James

This message is a reply to:
 Message 375 by riVeRraT, posted 09-08-2010 7:07 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 379 by frako, posted 09-08-2010 2:58 PM Omnivorous has not replied
 Message 385 by riVeRraT, posted 09-08-2010 8:01 PM Omnivorous has not replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 400 of 406 (580502)
09-09-2010 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 393 by frako
09-09-2010 1:05 PM


Re: You burn their book...
frako writes:
is there anything that i could burn that would piss both factions off at the same time
Abraham.
Edited by Omnivorous, : added quote for clarity

Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello
Real things always push back.
-William James

This message is a reply to:
 Message 393 by frako, posted 09-09-2010 1:05 PM frako has not replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 404 of 406 (580514)
09-09-2010 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 402 by Coyote
09-09-2010 2:18 PM


Re: wtf
coyote writes:
There are a lot of countries in Africa and elsewhere where they don't burn bibles, they burn the whole churches.
Somebody is always burning somebody, somewhere. They're all wrong.
quote:
EKET, Nigeria The 9-year-old boy lay on a bloodstained hospital sheet crawling with ants, staring blindly at the wall.
His family pastor had accused him of being a witch, and his father then tried to force acid down his throat as an exorcism. It spilled as he struggled, burning away his face and eyes. The emaciated boy barely had strength left to whisper the name of the church that had denounced him Mount Zion Lighthouse.
A month later, he died.
Nwanaokwo Edet was one of an increasing number of children in Africa accused of witchcraft by pastors and then tortured or killed, often by family members. Pastors were involved in half of 200 cases of "witch children" reviewed by the AP, and 13 churches were named in the case files.
Some of the churches involved are renegade local branches of international franchises. Their parishioners take literally the Biblical exhortation, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."
I'd warrant Pastor Jones in FLA would like to burn more than Korans.

Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello
Real things always push back.
-William James

This message is a reply to:
 Message 402 by Coyote, posted 09-09-2010 2:18 PM Coyote has not replied

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