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Author | Topic: how exactly does Israel stabilize the Middle East and why do we need Israel? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Jar writes: How exactly does Israel stabilize the Middle East? These are starters for reasons that Israel delays the violent radical Islamic domination of the Middle East and ultimately the planet, as the Koran advocates. (embolding mine)
As the first target of the most radical regimes and radical sub-state actors in the region, Israel has a permanent, existential interest in preventing these regimes and sub-state actors from acquiring the means to cause catastrophic harm. Israel's 1981 airstrike that destroyed Iraq's Osirak nuclear reactor prevented Iraq from acquiring nuclear weapons. Despite US condemnation at the time, the US later acknowledged that the strike was a necessary precondition to the success of Operation Desert Storm ten years later. Richard Cheney - who served as secretary of defense during Operation Desert Storm - has stated that if Iraq had been a nuclear power in 1991, the US would have been hard pressed to eject Saddam Hussein's Iraqi army from Kuwait and so block his regime from asserting control over oil supplies in the Persian Gulf. 2 - Israel is a non-expansionist state and its neighbors know it. In its 62 year history, Israel has only controlled territory vital for its national security and territory that was legally allotted to it in the 1922 League of Nations Mandate which has never been abrogated or superseded. Israel's strength, which it has used only in self-defense, is inherently non-threatening. Far from destabilizing the region, a strong Israel stabilizes the Middle East by deterring the most radical actors from attacking. In 1970, Israel blocked Syria's bid to use the PLO to overthrow the Hashemite regime in Jordan. Israel's threat to attack Syria not only saved the Hashemites then, it has deterred Syria from attempting to overthrow the Jordanian regime ever since. Similarly, Israel's neighbors understand that its purported nuclear arsenal is a weapon of national survival and hence they view it as non-threatening. This is the reason Israel's alleged nuclear arsenal has never spurred a regional nuclear arms race. In stark contrast, if Iran acquires nuclear weapons, a regional nuclear arms race will ensue immediately. Although they will never admit it, Israel's non-radical neighbors feel more secure when Israel is strong. On the other hand, the region's most radical regimes and non-state actors will always seek to emasculate Israel. 3-- Since as the Jewish state Israel is the regional bogeyman, no Arab state will agree to form a permanent alliance with it. Hence, Israel will never be in a position to join forces with another nation against a third nation. In contrast, the Egyptian-Syrian United Arab Republic of the 1960s was formed to attack Israel. Today, the Syrian-Iranian alliance is an inherently aggressive alliance against Israel and the non-radical Arab states in the region. Recognizing the stabilizing force of a strong Israel, the moderate states of the region prefer for Israel to remain BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
jar writes: If it is a concern it is simply a matter of ignorance. Historically the Muslims have protected both Jewish and Christian sites in the Middle East as well as the pilgrims. Remember that those sites are also sacred in Islam. Can you cite any specific instance where any Jewish Christian site has deliberately been preserved by Islamic entities so as to remain Jewish or Christian? BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
jar writes: Simply not true and also irrelevant. Israel is an expansionist state and is even today building settlements on territory it took by force. Do you ever read what you quote? Note this, Jar. "In its 62 year history, Israel has only controlled territory vital for its national security and territory......." Thus, after Israel took the Sinai Pininsula in the 1967 Six Day War, it promptly handed back the entire Sinai Pinsula to Egypt. Why? Because it was not considered vital to the national security and territory of Israel. Bottom line: According to Biblical prophecy, Israel is only entiled by God to the land alloted to it by God. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
nwr writes: The bigger issue is that many evangelical Christians believe in a totally absurd fantasy about a future end of the world, and that fantasy is centered in Jerusalem. You've got that wrong NWR. What most evangelicals believe is that the age of Gentile rule so far as world class empires is over at Armageddon at and near Jerusalem. That is when Jesus, messiah returns to rule the world for a thousand years. The planet and it's weather, terrain and atmosphere will be much like the pre-flood super climate where again humans will live much longer. Satan will be chained in a place called the bottomless pit and the weapons will be beat into plowshares, etc. So in answer to Jar's thread question, Israel will indeed be the greatest stability to not only the Mid East, but to the entire planet. I know it all sounds undoable, but climate change, Mid East events, particularly the restoration of Israel the emergence of Islam and global government all attest to the veracity of the prophecies, both OT and NT. It all is indeed coming to frution and moving along astonishingly rapidly. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
jar writes: In addition, there is a long, long History of the Muslims protecting and guarding the pilgrims that visited the Middle east going back to Saladin. There have been Christian and Jewish sites preserved and even in active use throughout the Middle East, in Jordan, Palestine, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon...Shall I continue? A whole lot of more killing, enslaving and conquest by Islam is in the historical archives than of preservation and aiding Christians and Jews. As it is today is as it's always been. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Huntard writes: Buzsaw writes: I know it all sounds undoable, but climate change, Mid East events, particularly the restoration of Israel the emergence of Islam and global government all attest to the veracity of the prophecies, both OT and NT. It all is indeed coming to frution and moving along astonishingly rapidly. No it isn't, it won't happen within your lifetime, nor will it happen in mine, nor will it happen at any time. Prepare yourself and hang onto your hat, Huntard. Make your peace with God by receiving his son, Jesus, messiah as saviour and lord/master. It's been escalating for the last century and will escalate more rapidly into fruition within, I say within, 50 years; more likely sooner than later! BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
onifre writes: To think, your god has 95 billion light years of space, galaxies, solar systems, planets, black holes, etc. to look after, and you claim he's worried about 946.1/sq mi of dirt on a single planet... That's right, Onifre. Teeny tiny earth appears to be the spot in the universe where the greatest adversary of God and his hoards of demons will be cast from the cosmos and be eventually thrown into the lake of fire. Don't fall for his deceipt and end up there with him. He's the great deceiver who's powers of deception separates the sheeple from Jehovah and his Jesus, lord and savior, the only salvation for humanity. BTW, how do you know it's only 95 billion light years? Perhaps that's only a speck in the whole. Little arrogant humans tend to think the realm of intelligence and space existing is what teeny earthlings have and what their teeny little telescops can observe. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
onifre writes: Make that 10. They were saying 50 years back in the '70s when I was a member of a fundamentalist church with basically the same eschatology. Most evangelicals were not predicting time frame. Aka, Buzsaw was predicting 70 years, give or take a few back in the 70s, based on Luke 21 when Jesus's prophecy of Gentiles being driven from Jerusalem, i.e. the 1967 Six Day War, when the Jews, for the first time after 19 plus centuries, marched into the old walled city of Jerusalem and celebrated at the Wailing Wall. Likely my calculation is still quite on track. Keep in mind, that 50 year statement was "within," and likely sooner than later relative to that timeframe. A whole lot of significant stuff supportive to rapid change in that direction has ensued since 1970. Edited by Buzsaw, : fix quote BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
jar writes: I assume you can provide support that Jews were not allowed to pray at the Wailing Wall for 19+ centuries or is this just another of your unsupported assertions The just of my statement, Jar, was that as a nation, the Jews did not govern and occupy, perse, the walled city until 1967. Note that all relative to the Wailing Wall in my statement was that they celebrated their victory at that site. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
onifre writes: Before he was burned alive, a priest asked him if he would accept Jesus and go to heaven. The cheif replied: If you've read much of me regarding Roman Catholicism, i.e. the popes and bishops of Vatican City, you should know that I consider Vatican City to be the Mystery Babylon, the harlot false, (Revelation 17,18) non-Biblical and non-Christian persecuters via the bloody inquisitions of the Dark Ages. The message of these murderous imposters was not "recant and receive Jesus," but recant and become subjects of our tyranical theocracy or die. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
jar writes: You do understand that the 1967 WAR was a war of aggression by Israel? In '67 I was watching the news and events leading up to that war closely, being so interested in it. I well remember the headlines the week before the war. Nasser, Prime Minister of Egypt: WE WILL DRIVE ISRAEL INTO THE SEA and assented to by every Muslim nation in the region, all armed by Russian Mig fighters Russian tanks and Russian armament.
ABE: Our interest in Israel not only related to keeping the militant expansionist Muslims of the region at bay, but to enhance our cold war ongoing at the time with Russia and the communist block of nations, all of whom also had a dog in the fight against tiny Israel, our only well armed ally in the gulf region. Edited by Buzsaw, : As noted. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member
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Jar, this is your classic response; to offer some nutty objection and incessantly repeat the answered questions. You're making an ass and a nusiance of yourself and you're cluttering up the site, racking up more thousands of posts 24/7. Give us a break from yourself.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
jar writes: One reason mentioned was that we needed a military base. Reality though shows that we are precluded from using Israel as a forward base because US troops there would destabilize the region. A second and unfortunately even more plausible reason is to draw attention away from the US, for Israel to become the focus of hatred instead of the US. The third reason suggested is that the existence of Israel is somehow a requirement to hurry along Armageddon. Not sure why that would be something we need but look forward to seeing that explained. Neither of those seems to be very honorable so the question remains. Are they the only reasons we need Israel? See Jar? This is what I mean. Just seven messages back I posted two additional reasons highlighted in pink, yet you simply waived them off calling for reasons, as you've incessantly been repeating all the way down thread from your OP.
Message 94 BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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