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Author Topic:   New Years day or Proclamation vs Cutting it short
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 16 of 32 (569804)
07-23-2010 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
07-23-2010 9:55 AM


Hi Jar,
Well, March 25th is easy.
Yes, it is when the spring equinox occurred, now shifted to march 20-21 ish due to the lapse of leap years in old calendars.
But why January 1st? Why was what happened that day important?
Except that the best evidence is that (if it occurred) the birth was in the spring (lambs etc).
What is the link to december 25th?
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by jar, posted 07-23-2010 9:55 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 07-23-2010 9:11 PM RAZD has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 17 of 32 (569806)
07-23-2010 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by RAZD
07-23-2010 9:08 PM


RAZD writes:
What is the link to december 25th?
January 1 falls a week and a day after December 25th.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by RAZD, posted 07-23-2010 9:08 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by RAZD, posted 07-23-2010 9:54 PM jar has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 18 of 32 (569808)
07-23-2010 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Huntard
07-23-2010 8:48 PM


Huntard writes:
Damn you Ringo, coming back and stealing my spotlight!
quote:
And hour on hour I watched in awe
No human being could match the draw of Ringo
And sometimes I hit the target.

Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can\'t find it.

This message is a reply to:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 32 (569810)
07-23-2010 9:22 PM


Pagan Holidays; Not Biblical
Dec 25 was not officially declared as the birth date of Jesus until 440 AD by the RCC. The pagan feast Saturnalia came from Roman paganism as did many of the non-Biblical stuff incorporated into the RCC. When Constantine became both head of state and pontifix maximus of the church in the 4th century he began mixing paganism with Christianity.
This was done to make Christianity more palatable to the pagans. This was just one of the reasons for my contention that Vatican City is the harlot city, i.e. Mystery Babylon of Revelation 17 and 18. Way back when I did a thread on this (5 or 6 years ago.) The book, THE TWO BABYLONS has a lot to say about the mixing of paganism with Roman Catholicism
Israel is quite cold in December which would make it unlikely that all the people would be required to travel to be taxed.
According to the Biblical account, the shepherds would be in the fields. Not likely in the winter. (Luke 2:8-12)
Palestine is very cold in December. It was much too cold to ask everyone to travel to the city of their fathers to register for taxes. Also the shepherds were in the fields (Luke 2:8-12). Shepherds were not in the fields in the winter months.
It's just nuts to suggest that a babe in the womb was not considered a human Biblically. When Mary greeted Elizabeth who was with child of John the Baptist, the record says that the babe leaped in Elizabeth's womb. It also says John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit while in the womb. (Luke 1:15)
Wiki explains that Jan 1 was also a pagan holiday, declared by Julius Caesar in 46 BC.
The Roman ruler Julius Caesar established January 1 as New Year's Day in 46 BC. The Romans dedicated this day to Janus, the god of gates, doors, and beginnings.
RCC revised it to be the 8th day of Christmas.
Edited by Buzsaw, : Add title and revise context some.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by crashfrog, posted 07-23-2010 9:53 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 22 by ringo, posted 07-23-2010 9:59 PM Buzsaw has replied
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 20 of 32 (569815)
07-23-2010 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Buzsaw
07-23-2010 9:22 PM


Well put (except for the nonsense prophecy, of course.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Buzsaw, posted 07-23-2010 9:22 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Buzsaw, posted 07-23-2010 10:16 PM crashfrog has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 21 of 32 (569816)
07-23-2010 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by jar
07-23-2010 9:11 PM


Hi jar,
January 1 falls a week and a day after December 25th.
And the 25th is relevant how?
See Message 19.
When confronted with such evidence I see (hear) christians say that they celebrate the birth on the 25th, even though it is not the actual birth date ... so how does this affect the 1JAN timing?
Just curious.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 07-23-2010 9:11 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by jar, posted 07-23-2010 10:00 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 22 of 32 (569817)
07-23-2010 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Buzsaw
07-23-2010 9:22 PM


Buzsaw writes:
It also says John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit while in the womb. (Luke 1:15)
Actually, it predicted that he would be filled with the Holy Spirit. It doesn't say when (or if) the prediction came true. And it says "from" the womb - i.e. after birth - not "in" the womb.
Luke1:15 writes:
For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can\'t find it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Buzsaw, posted 07-23-2010 9:22 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Buzsaw, posted 07-23-2010 10:26 PM ringo has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 23 of 32 (569818)
07-23-2010 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by RAZD
07-23-2010 9:54 PM


Because the calendars WERE created by Western Christians and they celebrated December 25th as the birth date. It doesn't much matter what the actual date was. January 1st is eight days after December 25th and was celebrated as Circumcision Day or Naming Day.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by RAZD, posted 07-23-2010 9:54 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 32 (569819)
07-23-2010 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by crashfrog
07-23-2010 9:53 PM


Pagan Holidays; Not Biblical
Crashfrog writes:
Well put (except for the nonsense prophecy, of course.)
Thanks, Crashfrog. I didn't expect anyone to appreciate the prophecy element. Bonafide fulfilled prophecy makes secularists queasy about accountability to a higher power.
It really is a very interesting study though. I've disected it and tested it with history right up until the present. Every little detail points the finger directly to Vatican City. But that's not for this topic, so I'll not digress further. Perhaps I'll do an updated thread on it if I ever find time.
Edited by Buzsaw, : forgot to correct spelling

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by crashfrog, posted 07-23-2010 9:53 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 25 of 32 (569821)
07-23-2010 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Buzsaw
07-23-2010 10:16 PM


Re: Pagan Holidays; Not Biblical
Bonafide fulfilled prophecy...

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 32 (569823)
07-23-2010 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by ringo
07-23-2010 9:59 PM


Abortion Non Sequitur
Interpret it how ever you wish, Ringo, but certainly it doesn't jive with the 8th day in January. Being filled with the Holy Spirit in the womb would be no more bizzar than leaping in the womb over a greeting. Neither depict a non-human. It puts the abortion connection which Jar tries to make to rest.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by ringo, posted 07-23-2010 9:59 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by ringo, posted 07-24-2010 12:16 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(2)
Message 27 of 32 (569827)
07-23-2010 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Buzsaw
07-23-2010 10:16 PM


Re: Pagan Holidays; Not Biblical
Bonafide fulfilled prophecy makes secularists queasy about accountability to a higher power.
No, it just makes us laugh at what the credulous will consider "fulfilled prophecy." Retrodiction is no impressive feat.
Every little detail points the finger directly to Vatican City.
Sure, because you live in a world where Vatican City exists and you don't like the Catholic Church. In a world where Vatican City didn't exist yet, there would be no way to derive it from the prophecy you're talking about.
It's retrodiction, not prediction.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 28 of 32 (569829)
07-23-2010 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by crashfrog
07-23-2010 10:48 PM


Re: Pagan Holidays; Not Biblical
Actually DC fits even better than Vatican City.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by crashfrog, posted 07-23-2010 10:48 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 29 of 32 (569843)
07-24-2010 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Buzsaw
07-23-2010 10:26 PM


Re: Abortion Non Sequitur
Buzsaw writes:
Interpret it how ever you wish, Ringo, but certainly it doesn't jive with the 8th day in January.
Nobody said anything about the 8th day in January. The point is that Jesus was circumcised 8 days after He was born, like every other Jewish male. It doesn't matter if they got the time of year wrong. The point is that the beginning of the year was pegged to the beginning of His Jewishness.
Buzsaw writes:
Being filled with the Holy Spirit in the womb would be no more bizzar than leaping in the womb over a greeting.
Every baby leaps in the womb. If it coincides with a greeting, that's no surprise. Being "filled with the Holy Spirit" is another matter, which most Christians misunderstand.
Buzsaw writes:
Neither depict a non-human. It puts the abortion connection which Jar tries to make to rest.
The point is that the Jewish people didn't consider a child really alive, officially Jewish, officially one of God's Chosen People until he was eight days old. Your opinion doesn't matter. It's what the Jewish people believed and practiced that counts. You're welcome to your opinions but don't pretend that the Jewish book backs you up.

Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can\'t find it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Buzsaw, posted 07-23-2010 10:26 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 32 (570406)
07-27-2010 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by jar
07-23-2010 12:31 PM


8th Day Facts & Fiction
Jar writes:
It was important because it was the day that a child was finally expected to live, was named and also was accepted as a member of the Faith.
Jar, where is your evidence? Where are you getting this from?
The fact is that the Holy Bible remarkably pinpoints the safest time for circumcision. The 7th day is when the baby's body begins to produce vitamin K which causes the blood to clot. Also the baby's intestine has no bacteria in it the first few days after it's birth. The 8th day has nothing to do with whether the baby is considered alive. This is the safest time and the time when the child will experience the least discomfort.
This timing is just another reason for the reliability of the Biblical record and that it is indeed inspired of the intelligelligent designer, Jehovah, the Biblical god.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by jar, posted 07-23-2010 12:31 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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