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Author Topic:   When does design become intelligent? (AS OF 8/2/10 - CLOSING COMMENTS ONLY)
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 616 of 702 (571795)
08-02-2010 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 615 by ICANT
08-02-2010 12:13 PM


dealing with idiotic comments
ICANT writes:
1,000,000,000 nanograms = 1 gram, = 750,000,000,000 mgb. 750,000,000,000 megabytes = 750,000,000 Gb = 750,000 T.
If there was ever any doubt, that post removed it.
Sheesh.
Edited by jar, : fix sub-title

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 615 by ICANT, posted 08-02-2010 12:13 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 617 of 702 (571796)
08-02-2010 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 615 by ICANT
08-02-2010 12:13 PM


Re: Antenna gains
ICANT writes:
1,000,000,000 nanograms = 1 gram, = 750,000,000,000 mgb. 750,000,000,000 megabytes = 750,000,000 Gb = 750,000 T.
Would you mind explaining to me how you came to work out that 1 gram of something is equivalent to 750,000,000,000 mgb?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 615 by ICANT, posted 08-02-2010 12:13 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 621 by ICANT, posted 08-02-2010 12:59 PM Huntard has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 618 of 702 (571797)
08-02-2010 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 606 by Dr Adequate
08-01-2010 9:22 AM


Re: Antenna gains
Hi Dr,
Dr Adequate writes:
No, the point of computers is to output different information from what is input.
The point of computers is to assist humans and store information on media for future retrevial.
I have never been able to get anything out of a computer that was not input by a key stroke, spoken words, or a computer program computing information.
The only exception to that, that I have seen is when memory, hard disk, or processor malfunction. But when any of those occur the information is corrupt and not useable.
Dr Adequate writes:
It is also not a genetic algorithm.
You are correct.
It is not a genetic algorithm that is written with the purpose of mimicing the process of natural evolution.
It is a program written by an intelligent designer to mimic random mutation generation.
There is no code in it to ignore any of the information produced. It just produces random mutations, which is exactly what would happen by natural random mutations.
Sorry you don't like the results of random mutations.
I am assuming you tried the random mutation generator.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 606 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-01-2010 9:22 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 624 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-02-2010 1:26 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 619 of 702 (571798)
08-02-2010 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 607 by Bikerman
08-01-2010 2:25 PM


Re: Antenna gains
Hi Biker,
Bikerman writes:
Did you read the posting on neural nets?
Yes I did read it.
I have a program on my computer and can play with it.
I loved the way they talked about the program being coded to ignore certain information when producing the results. Isn't that controling the output?
Don't get me wrong the one I have is a great program that was written by some very intelligent human beings. It can perform many functions and will examine and output information that it is coded to output.
Now as far as your comment about my acknowledging some messages. It is impossible to answer all posts when you have as many posters pilling on as there are here against me. So I will choose who I will answer according to time restraints.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 607 by Bikerman, posted 08-01-2010 2:25 PM Bikerman has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 620 of 702 (571799)
08-02-2010 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 608 by DC85
08-01-2010 3:35 PM


Re: More Of Your Sauce
Hi DC85,
DC85 writes:
Perhaps the universe's past is it's future or it's future triggered it's past.
Please explain how that would be possible.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 608 by DC85, posted 08-01-2010 3:35 PM DC85 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 683 by DC85, posted 08-02-2010 10:34 PM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 621 of 702 (571800)
08-02-2010 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 617 by Huntard
08-02-2010 12:24 PM


Re: Antenna gains
Hi Huntard,
Huntard writes:
Would you mind explaining to me how you came to work out that 1 gram of something is equivalent to 750,000,000,000 mgb?
The DNA in one human cell contains 750 megabytes of information. I am using crashfrogs number.
One human cell weighs 1 nanogram.
There are 1,000,000,000 nanograms in 1 gram.
So 1 gram of human cells would contain 750,000,000,000 megabytes of stored information.
That is how I reached my conclusion. If the math is wrong please correct me.
That would mean the intelligent designer that designed the human DNA and cell is far more intelligent that humans are. Because we are far from the compression ratio employed in the human DNA.
God Bess,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 617 by Huntard, posted 08-02-2010 12:24 PM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 622 by Huntard, posted 08-02-2010 1:05 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 626 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-02-2010 1:36 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 649 by crashfrog, posted 08-02-2010 4:59 PM ICANT has replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 622 of 702 (571801)
08-02-2010 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 621 by ICANT
08-02-2010 12:59 PM


Re: Antenna gains
ICANT writes:
The DNA in one human cell contains 750 megabytes of information. I am using crashfrogs number.
Crashfrog didn't say that a cell contained that much information. He said the entire human genome does.
That would mean the intelligent designer that designed the human DNA and cell is far more intelligent that humans are. Because we are far from the compression ratio employed in the human DNA.
This compression ratio has nothing tom do with intelligence however, it has far more to do with capability. We don't have to get more intelligent to achieve this ratio, we need to get more capable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 621 by ICANT, posted 08-02-2010 12:59 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 628 by ICANT, posted 08-02-2010 1:39 PM Huntard has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 623 of 702 (571804)
08-02-2010 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 600 by ringo
08-01-2010 3:31 AM


Re: More Of Your Sauce
Hi Ringo,
Ringo writes:
My next question would be, "Why wouldn't it?"
It seems tht DNA is found in living things.
Ringo writes:
Then why wouldn't hydrogen contain the information that allows it to react with oxygen, for example, to form water?
I can't find anyone who says hydrogen contains any information.
Are you saying it does?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 600 by ringo, posted 08-01-2010 3:31 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 630 by ringo, posted 08-02-2010 1:52 PM ICANT has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 624 of 702 (571805)
08-02-2010 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 618 by ICANT
08-02-2010 12:32 PM


Re: Antenna gains
The point of computers is to assist humans and store information on media for future retrevial.
They can actually do more than store information. For example, they can generate it.
I have never been able to get anything out of a computer that was not input by a key stroke, spoken words, or a computer program computing information.
And a computer program computing information is ... (a) an intelligent designer (b) not an intelligent designer?
You are correct.
It is not a genetic algorithm that is written with the purpose of mimicing the process of natural evolution.
It is a program written by an intelligent designer to mimic random mutation generation.
There is no code in it to ignore any of the information produced.
There is no code in it to pay any attention to the information produced. You don't need code to ignore things, you need an absence of code to ignore things.
It just produces random mutations, which is exactly what would happen by natural random mutations.
But not exactly what happens in the real world, where population sizes are greater than 1 and selection operates.
Sorry you don't like the results of random mutations.
I love 'em. I'm a big fan of selection too.
I am assuming you tried the random mutation generator.
It seems to have been designed by a creationist as a tool to prevent people from understanding evolution, am I right?
I wonder if it's ever fooled anyone.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 618 by ICANT, posted 08-02-2010 12:32 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 631 by ICANT, posted 08-02-2010 2:58 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 625 of 702 (571806)
08-02-2010 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 614 by ICANT
08-02-2010 11:53 AM


Re: More Of Your Sauce
I am told because we can see some things evolve to a certain point that infers that evolution of all things took place from a single cell life form to present day life forms.
No you aren't.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 614 by ICANT, posted 08-02-2010 11:53 AM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 626 of 702 (571807)
08-02-2010 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 621 by ICANT
08-02-2010 12:59 PM


Re: Antenna gains
That would mean the intelligent designer that designed the human DNA and cell is far more intelligent that humans are. Because we are far from the compression ratio employed in the human DNA.
We do it better.
Researchers say that an intriguing aspect of the latest work is that memory density is comparable to the way nature stores data in DNA molecules.
The Wisconsin atomic-scale silicon memory uses 20 atoms to store one bit of information, including the space around the single atom bits.
DNA uses 32 atoms to store information in one half of the chemical base pair that is the fundamental unit that makes up genetic information.
So a base pair uses 64 atoms to store 2 bits, the Wisconsin array uses 20 atoms to store 1. (Note that here I'm being generous to you by only counting the atoms in the DNA, not the whole cell, which is the metric that you were using.)
Seems we're smarter than that intelligent designer you're so fond of.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 621 by ICANT, posted 08-02-2010 12:59 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 632 by ICANT, posted 08-02-2010 3:27 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 627 of 702 (571808)
08-02-2010 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 611 by Drosophilla
08-01-2010 6:53 PM


Re: ***STOP PRESS - INCREDIBLE DISCOVERY*****
We were wrong....the singularity has been with us all along. it goes by the name of ICANT ...
Wait ... are you saying that he's infinitely dense?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 611 by Drosophilla, posted 08-01-2010 6:53 PM Drosophilla has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 628 of 702 (571809)
08-02-2010 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 622 by Huntard
08-02-2010 1:05 PM


Re: Antenna gains
Hi Huntard,
Huntard writes:
Crashfrog didn't say that a cell contained that much information. He said the entire human genome does.
Which is contained in every human cell except sperm and eggs.
The human genome is 3,000,000,000 base pairs. Since there are two copies in each cell there is 6,000,000,000 base pairs contained in each cell.
That would double the information that could be stored in 1 gram of human cells.
Huntard writes:
This compression ratio has nothing tom do with intelligence however, it has far more to do with capability. We don't have to get more intelligent to achieve this ratio, we need to get more capable.
If we were more intelligent we would be more capable. But the knowledge or capability is far from the reach of mankind today.
The intelligent designer was far more intelligent.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 622 by Huntard, posted 08-02-2010 1:05 PM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 629 by Huntard, posted 08-02-2010 1:47 PM ICANT has replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 629 of 702 (571810)
08-02-2010 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 628 by ICANT
08-02-2010 1:39 PM


Re: Antenna gains
ICANT writes:
If we were more intelligent we would be more capable.
Nonsense, people who lived 100 years ago weren't less intelligent than people who live now, yet we can store data better than DNA does (see Dr. adequate's post), and they had to write everything on paper. Intelligence has nothing to do with capability.
But the knowledge or capability is far from the reach of mankind today.
Quite, meaning that our intelligence is not the limiting factor.
The intelligent designer was far more intelligent.
We did it better than him, so according to you, we are more intelligent.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 628 by ICANT, posted 08-02-2010 1:39 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 633 by ICANT, posted 08-02-2010 3:34 PM Huntard has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 630 of 702 (571811)
08-02-2010 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 623 by ICANT
08-02-2010 1:21 PM


ICANT writes:
It seems tht DNA is found in living things.
A lot of molecules are found in living things. If that's your criterion, I'll alter my question slightly to, "Why wouldn't water contain information?"
ICANT writes:
I can't find anyone who says hydrogen contains any information.
Are you saying it does?
Don't be dishonest. You know very well what I've been saying all along: All molecules contain information in their structure. I'm asking you to explain why they wouldn't.
To put it another way, if we can detect information in DNA, what is it specifically that we are detecting? What does it look like, specifically? If I showed you a small section of a DNA molecule under a powerful microscope alongside a small section of another molecule, how could you tell which was which? What does the information look like?

Life is like a Hot Wheels car. Sometimes it goes behind the couch and you can't find it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 623 by ICANT, posted 08-02-2010 1:21 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 636 by ICANT, posted 08-02-2010 3:58 PM ringo has replied

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