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Author | Topic: The Concept of God -- Need Logic Help | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: Of course I'm not claiming impossibility, simply implausibility. The level of accuracy seems beyond anything that could be reasonably achieved if we allow that free will actions are not perfectly predictable.
quote: It does make perfect knowledge of the future impossible through ordinary prediction, though. Unless you assume cheating to the extent of deliberately arranging each unpredictable event (which hardly improves your position). Again, perfect knowledge of the future is the problem. Arguing about mechanisms can't help you.
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
He hides in His heaven, refusing to even show us that He exists. I dont feel that way. Perhaps you do because you are stuck on the "show" and un moved by any feeling.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined:
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Phat writes:
quote: You do understand just how insulting that statement is, yes?Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
It would be insulting to some. Ringo and I have a long history of going round and round with this stuff. I think he understands that its not personal.
Ringo always demands evidence. He won't entertain any belief without it, although there cannot be any evidence in regards to anything labeled supernatural. Im chiding him for "not feelin it". Relax. For you're benefit, I might add: *Blink* "You Did Not Just Say That, Did You?"Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Taq Member Posts: 10044 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Phat writes: Ringo always demands evidence. He won't entertain any belief without it, although there cannot be any evidence in regards to anything labeled supernatural. Why can't there be any evidence with regard to the supernatural? It would seem to me that if the stories in the Old Testament are true that the supernatural can easily produce evidence. Also, you demand evidence for many claims, do you not? If you are taking medication for an illness you expect that there is solid evidence demonstrating its efficacy. You don't expect the efficacy of a drug to be based on feelings, do you?
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
No. As I've said many times, belief is specifically for those situations where you don't have any evidence. If you have evidence for something, you ought to accept that it's true. Ringo always demands evidence. He won't entertain any belief without it.... (I know we sometimes use "believe" as in "believe in evolution" but I try to avoid that.)
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
You do understand just how insulting that statement is, yes? I hear this word "insulting" quite often from unbelievers. Is the entire idea of Jesus insulting to you? Theodoric trots out the word quite often..as if how dare I say such things! The reason I bring it up is because I hear the word more from non believers than I do from religious folks.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
It's insulting that you ignore us when we say, "No, the idea of Jesus is NOT insulting to me." Don't try to psychoanalyze people. You're not qualified.
I hear this word "insulting" quite often from unbelievers. Is the entire idea of Jesus insulting to you? Phat writes:
Allow me to introduce you to Faith.
The reason I bring it up is because I hear the word more from non believers than I do from religious folks.
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Phat Member Posts: 18310 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ahhh so it insults you when I try and psychoanalyze you! Correct?
And yes, I thought of Faith. She is a sensitive one. You, on the other hand would be better off going to a qualified professional if you don't like my analytical style...but just between us internet friends, i'm free and they cost money. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Taq Member Posts: 10044 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Phat writes: I hear this word "insulting" quite often from unbelievers. Is the entire idea of Jesus insulting to you? It is an insult to your intelligence when the snake oil salesman tells you that you just don't want to believe that the snake oil works. It is a backhanded dismissal of the argument that there is no evidence that the snake oil works, and it pretends like we can't see right through the most obvious attempt to avoid the argument by appealing to emotions.
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Taq Member Posts: 10044 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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Phat writes: ahhh so it insults you when I try and psychoanalyze you! Correct? It is an attack on someone's character which is used as a way of avoiding the argument being put forth. That is what is insulting.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined:
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Phat responds to me:
quote: Then have you considered the possibility that you are, indeed, being insulting? When you keep getting the same response from people, different people with different agendas, then consider the possibility that it isn't them. It's you.
quote: Huh? Why would "the entire idea of Jesus" be insulting? A belief in Jesus is not insulting. An assumption that atheists aren't being sincere is. An assumption that atheists are being willful is. Do recall that the vast majority of atheists used to be believers. They "felt" it all. They then realized that what they were feeling wasn't what they thought it was. It's the same argument that atheists are psychopaths without feeling who would just as soon kill you as shake your hand.
quote: Again, consider the possibility that it is, indeed, you. If you keep getting this reaction from people despite their having no connection to each other, then there is a distinct possibility that they're onto something. After all, you responded to this message twice...once to claim you were just kidding and then again to play dumb.Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: I hear this word "insulting" quite often from unbelievers. Is the entire idea of Jesus insulting to you? Theodoric trots out the word quite often..as if how dare I say such things! The reason I bring it up is because I hear the word more from non believers than I do from religious folks. I think I would say it is embarrassing more than insulting. It seems today that an American Christian can't open their mouth without presenting a face palm assertion. It is one long stream of inane comment followed by inane comment.
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
"Insult" isn't the word I would use but suppose you're eating your favorite ice cream and somebody keeps telling you, "No, you really prefer Coffee Mustard,'" and no matter how many times you tell them what you really think, they insist that they know you better than you know yourself.
ahhh so it insults you when I try and psychoanalyze you! Correct? Phat writes:
Your analytical "style" is a broken record.
You, on the other hand would be better off going to a qualified professional if you don't like my analytical style...
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9143 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3
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Theodoric trots out the word quite often..as if how dare I say such things!
Seemingly it is ok for you to attack nontheists, but no one is allowed to question your dubious logic and beliefs at all. Classic, typical, hard core theist. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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