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Author Topic:   Potential Evidence for a Global Flood
Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 137 of 320 (631406)
08-31-2011 9:22 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Just being real
08-31-2011 9:02 PM


Re: Reply to Panda's comment
To avoid massive posts, I'll pick one point at a time...
Just being real writes:
But have you ever considered the fact that in most of these strata layers, "surface imprints" which have been fossilized, are common? Features like ripple patterns, animal tracks and rain drop impressions? Under usual conditions these features are quickly destroyed by normal erosion and life. In order for these types of impressions to be preserved, the next sediment layer must be laid down very fast, and the next layer, and the next, and so forth.
These surface imprints are common? Well, so are floods.
You have provided an argument that areas of land are often flooded.
I doubt anyone would argue against that.
Please explain why these features were not preserved by the normal localised flooding that we still see happening today.

Always remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR
Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Just being real, posted 08-31-2011 9:02 PM Just being real has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by Just being real, posted 09-01-2011 7:06 AM Panda has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 146 of 320 (631420)
08-31-2011 11:35 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by Coyote
08-31-2011 11:06 PM


Re: DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU BELIEVE.
Coyote writes:
I quoted no texts.
You are trying to have an honest debate with a dishonest debater.
It is a waste of your time.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Off-topic banner.

Always remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR
Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Coyote, posted 08-31-2011 11:06 PM Coyote has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by Pressie, posted 09-01-2011 6:11 AM Panda has seen this message but not replied
 Message 150 by IamJoseph, posted 09-01-2011 6:46 AM Panda has not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 154 of 320 (631485)
09-01-2011 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by Just being real
09-01-2011 7:06 AM


Re: Reply to Panda's comment
Just being real writes:
...there is no rapid burial with a source of gentle blanketing sediments all mixed with cementing agents, without which trace fossils cannot be preserved.
This appears to be taken from http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/Liquefaction6.html
quote:
Today, without rapid burial and a source of gentle blanketing sediments all mixed with cementing agents, trace fossils cannot be preserved.
If this is a claim that local flooding is not rapid enough and doesn't contain the required sediment then I can find no evidence to support this claim.
.
.
Just being real writes:
Ripples can only be preserved when covered by a different type of sediment. For example ripples in coarse sand were overlain by a finer silty sand and red oxidized mud.
This appears to be taken from http://creation.com/hundreds-of-jellyfish-fossils
quote:
Also, ripples can only be preserved when covered by a different type of sedimentin this case, the ripples in coarse sand were overlain by a finer silty sand and red oxidized mud.
I can find no evidence to support this claim.
.
.
Just being real writes:
Multiple layers of ripples, and the variations observed in their alignments between the layers indicates they were laid down by sediment laying currents of varying strength and therefore producing the variation in particle sizes between layers that we observe.
This appears to be taken from http://creation.com/hundreds-of-jellyfish-fossils
quote:
The multiple layers of ripples (and the variation in their alignment/orientation between layers) reflect their having been laid down by sediment-laden currents of varying strength (thus the variation in particle sizes between layers).
This is unconnected to whether a flood was global or not.
.
.
Just being real writes:
The typical local flood events just don't produce these kinds of features.
I see no evidence to support this conclusion.
If you could provide some evidence to back up these claims I would be very interested.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Always remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR
Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Just being real, posted 09-01-2011 7:06 AM Just being real has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by IamJoseph, posted 09-01-2011 5:58 PM Panda has not replied
 Message 172 by Just being real, posted 09-01-2011 8:57 PM Panda has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 175 of 320 (631601)
09-01-2011 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by Just being real
09-01-2011 8:57 PM


Re: Reply to Panda's comment
JBR writes:
Your asking me to provide evidence for something that does "not" occur? This would be similar to me expecting someone to provide evidence to support the claim that God does not exist. A negative statement cannot be proven, it can only be dis-proven.
A negative statement can be proven.
If I asked you to prove that a cat does not go "woof" every time you hit it - it would only require 1 cat and a stick to prove that negative statement true.
You have claimed that localised flooding doesn't create ripples.
How do you know?
What research has been done to show this is true?
JBR writes:
That means if you know of just one example that shows how normal flood conditions (not catastrophic events like a 4 or above VEI volcano) could produce fossilized surface ripples, then I'd love to here it.
They are your claims. This is meant to be your evidence. You need to substantiate your claims.
If all you are doing is saying that you have a hypothesis that localised flooding doesn't cause ripples, then fine.
But a hypothesis in not evidence.
p.s.
If you accept that volcanoes create ripples - how do you know which ripples are caused by a global flood and which are caused by volcanoes?
{abe} After Percy's comments about focussing on your strongest evidence first: I am happy to abandon this line of discussion and switch to another if that is what you would prefer.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Always remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR
Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Just being real, posted 09-01-2011 8:57 PM Just being real has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by RAZD, posted 09-01-2011 10:27 PM Panda has not replied
 Message 178 by Just being real, posted 09-03-2011 10:49 AM Panda has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 185 of 320 (631853)
09-03-2011 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by Just being real
09-03-2011 10:49 AM


Re: Reply to Panda's comment
Just being real writes:
My statement in post 152 started with "My understanding is..." thereby implying that to the best of my knowledge it was true. Not that I had knowledge of the fossils left by every single flood that ever occurred in the entire universe. I know when I make a negative statement that I am only basing it on my own limited knowledge, and all it takes is one example otherwise by someone to disprove it.
But you said:
quote:
The typical local flood events just don't produce these kinds of features.
How do you know this?
If you are just making an unfounded statement or putting forward your hypothesis then that is not evidence.
You said you had evidence, but the quote above is just an unsubstantiated claim.
Please show the evidence.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Always remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR
Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by Just being real, posted 09-03-2011 10:49 AM Just being real has not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(2)
Message 203 of 320 (632173)
09-06-2011 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by Just being real
09-05-2011 11:00 PM


Just being real writes:
I make no secret that I am riding on the shoulders of much greater men than I who have much more knowledge than I in those fields.
This is fine.
We all stand on the shoulders of someone.
But I would have expected these great men to have shown their working.
Where is their evidence?
Just being real writes:
Again Panda, it is a negative statement, and if you know it is false, all it would take is one example to demonstrate so.
If I was to claim that there is no life on Mars, then that would not be evidence.
Someone would have to go search for life on Mars before I could claim to have evidence of there being no life on Mars.
So, do you have any links to any research?
Or is it just a bare assertion?
Because so far you have not supplied any evidence.

Always remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR
Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by Just being real, posted 09-05-2011 11:00 PM Just being real has not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 204 of 320 (632174)
09-06-2011 7:36 AM
Reply to: Message 200 by Just being real
09-06-2011 7:05 AM


JBR writes:
...but a side note, I find it interesting that you so easily wave away the fact that artificially produced petroleum does in fact demonstrate that it does not require large amounts of time.
Pressie writes:
Those products we produce are neither coal beds nor oil deposits. They are substitutes for oil. Even the chemistry differs widely from naturally forming oil.

Always remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR
Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Just being real, posted 09-06-2011 7:05 AM Just being real has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 208 by Pressie, posted 09-06-2011 8:58 AM Panda has seen this message but not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 216 of 320 (632294)
09-06-2011 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by Just being real
09-06-2011 9:05 PM


Re: Taking a short break
Taking your time and making a well thought-out post is to be applauded.

Always remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR
Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Just being real, posted 09-06-2011 9:05 PM Just being real has not replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 233 of 320 (633030)
09-12-2011 5:47 AM
Reply to: Message 221 by Just being real
09-11-2011 10:54 PM


Re: Polystrate fossils
JBR writes:
Fossils of single living organisms such as trees (AKA Polystrate fossils) are commonly found piercing through several layers of these strata. These tree fossils (AKA kettlebottoms in mining) are so common in coal beds that they are even a real danger to miners who have been injured or killed by them dislodging and falling on them. They are common enough that in 2000 they came up for review by the Federal Mine Safety and Health Review Commission. And I even found an article as recent as 2007 in which one fell and killed Brent Reynolds in a mine in Kentucky.
I see no reference to kettle bottoms piercing through several layers.
I see references to them being found in mines and that they are dangerous.
But I see no statements regarding your claim: "are commonly found piercing through several layers of these strata."
This completely undermines the rest of your post.
p.s.
I see you have a lot of replies.
I'd rather wait for a reply - or not see one at all - than have a rushed answer that contains mistakes (solely due to rushing).
Remember: this is not a race.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Always remember: QUIDQUID LATINE DICTUM SIT ALTUM VIDITUR
Science flies you into space; religion flies you into buildings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Just being real, posted 09-11-2011 10:54 PM Just being real has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by Minnemooseus, posted 09-12-2011 7:04 PM Panda has seen this message but not replied

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