Potential Evidence for a Global Flood

It does not matter because the Biblical Flood has been absolutely refuted. I never happened.That is a fact.You are new here so I will repeat one of the absolute refutations for you.In the version of the myth found in Genesis 6 God instructs Noah to:

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19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. 20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. 21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them."

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In the version of the myth found in Genesis 7 we see similar (close but not the same) instructions:

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2 Take with you seven of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth.

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We also find similar explanations of what will be destroyed in Genesis 6 it says:

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7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earthmen and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the airfor I am grieved that I have made them."

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and in Genesis 7:

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4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made."

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In both myths lots of critters get killed, in the myth found in Genesis 6 it seems to be talking about land animals and birds while the myth found in Genesis 7 goes even further and wipes out all living things.If we play mix and match and take the best scenario from each of the myths we might be able to claim that only the birds and land animals were wiped out based on the passage from the Genesis 6 story and that we have the larger saved population found in Genesis 7.Based on that mix and match game set we have a situation where all land animals and birds found today will be descended from a population that consisted of at most fourteen critters (seven pairs of clean animals and birds) and at worst case four critters (two pair of unclean animals).Now that is what I would call a real bottleneck.We know we can see bottlenecks in the genetic record; a great example is the one in Cheetahs but we even see them in the human genome and most other species.BUT...If the flood actually happened we would see a bottleneck in EVERY species of animal living on the land and EVERY bird and EVERY one of the bottlenecks show up in the SAME historical time period.Talk about a big RED flag.That bottleneck signature would be something every geneticists in the world would see. It would be like a neon sign, Broadway at midnight on New Years Eve. It would be something even a blind geneticist could see.So it seems to me to be a very simple test that will support or refute the Flood.If that genetic marker is there in EVERY species living on land or bird of the air, then there is support for the flood. It does not prove the flood happened but it would be very strong support.If on the other hand that genetic marker is NOT there, then the Flood is refuted. That genetic marker is NOT there.

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The Biblical Flood has been refuted.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

We know for a fact that the Biblical Flood never happened and you have been given absolute refutation about the Biblical Flood.Why are you mentioning about Ron Wyatt (someone that is known to have misrepresented facts and faked data) even after the subject of the Biblical Flood has been proven to be false?

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

So reply to the evidence based on what you did leave in your post.If the either of the Bible Flood stories was true then every living thing today is descended from those survivors. There would be a genetic bottle neck signature in EVERY living critter today that all point to the exact same time in history, a really recent event.That signature is not there.The Biblical account of the Flood is absolutely and completely refuted.The Biblical Flood did not happen. Period.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

The thing that those supporting the Biblical Flood need to find is that genetic bottleneck signature in every living species that marks to the same (fairly recent) date.The fact is that the Bible Flood myths do give us a few specific pieces to test. As I pointed out many, many times over the years here at EvC, the one consistent thing in the different Flood myths in the Bible is that a whole lot of critters get killed and only the critters on the ark survive.If that story is true we MUST see a genetic bottleneck marker in EVERY species of bird, every human, every critter on land and all the markers must point to the same period of time.Now that marker would be great support for the flood. It does not prove there was a flood (it could have been some other catastrophe) but it certainly would add some support.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

They can try that but...regardless, if the Bible story is true then still all living land critters and all the flying critters would still be descended from the survivors on the ark.They can try and pull the Super Genome ploy but that was killed off by Oetzi.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Fortunately, there is no need to know anything about conditions before or even during the Biblical Flood. If the Biblical Flood myths are true then the genetic bottle neck marker must be there in every human, every land animal, every bird alive today.That marker is NOT there.The Biblical Flood myths are refuted.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

There is no need to have it even though in reality we do also have that, in fact we have what would likely be one of Adam's kids genetic data as well as genetic data from at least four other humans, several different animals, lots of plants. We have lots of genetic data for the people before the flood and that data has been presented to you many times as well.Your assumption is simply refuted, wrong, false, untrue. If you want we can return to that thread yet again as well.BUT we don't need that as I have explained to you. All we need is the information given in the Biblical Noahic Flood myths. A genetic bottleneck is totally unrelated to any of the pre-flood nonsense you fantasize about; the only thing the bottle neck is related to is that every living critter on land, every flying thing, is descended from the populations on the ark.I will repeat it yet again for you.

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In the version of the myth found in Genesis 6 God instructs Noah to:

​

quote:

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19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. 20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. 21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them."

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​

In the version of the myth found in Genesis 7 we see similar (close but not the same) instructions:

​

quote:

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2 Take with you seven of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth.

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​

We also find similar explanations of what will be destroyed in Genesis 6 it says:

​

quote:

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7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earthmen and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the airfor I am grieved that I have made them."

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and in Genesis 7:

​

quote:

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4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made."

---

​

In both myths lots of critters get killed, in the myth found in Genesis 6 it seems to be talking about land animals and birds while the myth found in Genesis 7 goes even further and wipes out all living things.

​

If we play mix and match and take the best scenario from each of the myths we might be able to claim that only the birds and land animals were wiped out based on the passage from the Genesis 6 story and that we have the larger saved population found in Genesis 7.

​

Based on that mix and match game set we have a situation where all land animals and birds found today will be descended from a population that consisted of at most fourteen critters (seven pairs of clean animals and birds) and at worst case four critters (two pair of unclean animals).

​

Now that is what I would call a real bottleneck.

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We know we can see bottlenecks in the genetic record; a great example is the one in Cheetahs but we even see them in the human genome and most other species.

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BUT...

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If the flood actually happened we would see a bottleneck in EVERY species of animal living on the land and EVERY bird and EVERY one of the bottlenecks show up in the SAME historical time period.

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Talk about a big RED flag.

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That bottleneck signature would be something every geneticists in the world would see. It would be like a neon sign, Broadway at midnight on New Years Eve. It would be something even a blind geneticist could see.

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So it seems to me to be a very simple test that will support or refute the Flood.

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If that genetic marker is there in EVERY species living on land or bird of the air, then there is support for the flood. It does not prove the flood happened but it would be very strong support.

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If on the other hand that genetic marker is NOT there, then the Flood is refuted.

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That genetic marker is NOT there.

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The Biblical Flood has been refuted.

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Buz writes:

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You are assuming a relative uniformity which necessarily assumes the impossibility of a global flood.

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That of course is simply untrue. Nothing in my Genetic Marker test assumes uniformity. The only assumptions are that the Bible accurately describes what the Biblical flood would have been like.

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And the evidence shows that the Biblical Flood never happened.

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Fact.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Because we have (and you have been given) direct evidence that the conditions before the supposed flood we NOT significantly different.

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There is one well known place where we can look to see if there is ANY reality to the assertion of some super-genome and that is with Oetzi the Iceman.

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What do we know about Oetzi?

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First he was both contemporary with Adam and likely a Grandson.

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He lived about 5300 years ago and so Adam was still alive.

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His mitochondrial DNA is from the haplogroup K.

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He was born and his childhood was near the present town of Feldthurns in what today is Italy, but then moved about 50 km south.

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He was around 40-50 years old when he died.

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He had eaten twice recently, one Chamois, the other Red Deer meat along with fruit and grain, likely bread.

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His shoes were composite, soles of bear skin, uppers deerhide. They were insulated with grasses.

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There was blood from four other people on him.

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Pollen showed that he ate his last meal in a mid altitude conifer forest and that it was spring time.

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The biggest thing is that NOTHING was very different. There were NO signs of some Super-Genome in his makeup, the makeup of the other people, the critters or food, the materials used.

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So, if there was some super-genome, why are there no signs of it in the people, animals, plants, spores and pollen contemporary with Adam?

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from this threadWe know for a fact that there was no Biblical Flood and that the conditions before the date of the supposed Biblical Flood were very little different than today.The Flood and your supposed pre-flood conditions are totally refuted, false, untrue.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

And we know with a very high degree of certainty that the conditions before the date of the supposed flood were NOT different.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Buz, the link I gave you to Oetzi totally refutes Baumgartners position. He is simply wrong, end ofr subject.In case you missed it here it is again.

quote:

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There is one well known place where we can look to see if there is ANY reality to the assertion of some super-genome and that is with Oetzi the Iceman.

​

What do we know about Oetzi?

​

First he was both contemporary with Adam and likely a Grandson.

​

He lived about 5300 years ago and so Adam was still alive.

​

His mitochondrial DNA is from the haplogroup K.

​

He was born and his childhood was near the present town of Feldthurns in what today is Italy, but then moved about 50 km south.

​

He was around 40-50 years old when he died.

​

He had eaten twice recently, one Chamois, the other Red Deer meat along with fruit and grain, likely bread.

​

His shoes were composite, soles of bear skin, uppers deerhide. They were insulated with grasses.

​

There was blood from four other people on him.

​

Pollen showed that he ate his last meal in a mid altitude conifer forest and that it was spring time.

​

The biggest thing is that NOTHING was very different. There were NO signs of some Super-Genome in his makeup, the makeup of the other people, the critters or food, the materials used.

​

So, if there was some super-genome, why are there no signs of it in the people, animals, plants, spores and pollen contemporary with Adam?

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No difference in genome, plants, animals, people, temperature, air pressure, anything.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Too late!He didn't learn here either.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

It really doesn't matter how much (even false) evidence you present in support of the Biblical Flood, it has been totally refuted; there is absolute evidence that it never happened.The Biblical Flood is simply myth and fantasy.In the version of the myth found in Genesis 6 God instructs Noah to:

quote:

---

19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. 20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. 21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them."

---

In the version of the myth found in Genesis 7 we see similar (close but not the same) instructions:

quote:

---

2 Take with you seven of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth.

---

We also find similar explanations of what will be destroyed in Genesis 6 it says:

quote:

---

7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earthmen and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the airfor I am grieved that I have made them."

---

and in Genesis 7:

quote:

---

4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made."

---

In both myths lots of critters get killed, in the myth found in Genesis 6 it seems to be talking about land animals and birds while the myth found in Genesis 7 goes even further and wipes out all living things.If we play mix and match and take the best scenario from each of the myths we might be able to claim that only the birds and land animals were wiped out based on the passage from the Genesis 6 story and that we have the larger saved population found in Genesis 7.Based on that mix and match game set we have a situation where all land animals and birds found today will be descended from a population that consisted of at most fourteen critters (seven pairs of clean animals and birds) and at worst case four critters (two pair of unclean animals).Now that is what I would call a real bottleneck.We know we can see bottlenecks in the genetic record; a great example is the one in Cheetahs but we even see them in the human genome and most other species.BUT...If the flood actually happened we would see a bottleneck in EVERY species of animal living on the land and EVERY bird and EVERY one of the bottlenecks show up in the SAME historical time period.Talk about a big RED flag.That bottleneck signature would be something every geneticists in the world would see. It would be like a neon sign, Broadway at midnight on New Years Eve. It would be something even a blind geneticist could see.So it seems to me to be a very simple test that will support or refute the Flood.If that genetic marker is there in EVERY species living on land or bird of the air, then there is support for the flood. It does not prove the flood happened but it would be very strong support.If on the other hand that genetic marker is NOT there, then the Flood is refuted.The marker is not there.The Biblical Flood is totally, completely refuted. {In my judgement, this is rather a Jar boilerplate rant and is in little or no way a reply to the content of the message it is a reply to. - Adminnemooseus}Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Note in red.

The topic is the Biblical Flood.The Biblical Flood has been totally refuted.It really is that simple. Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Off-topic banner.

Irrelevant. I even quoted the relevant verses. Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Off-topic banner.

Bullshit.The age of folk or how long they lived is totally irrelevant to the genetic marker. It does not matter how long folk lived although there is absolute proof that all the animals lived just about as long as they do today going back way before Adam's time.The Magical Mystery Biblical Flood was not very long ago. We're not talking about a bottleneck that happened long long ago, the flood was damn near yesterday in geological and biological terms.In addition, if you want to pretend that animals and humans lived longer, that only reduces the number of generations going back to the supposed Biblical Flood.Your nonsense would simply make the genetic marker even more obvious.The fact is, the marker is not seen.The Biblical Flood is refuted.It really is that simple. Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Off-topic banner.