Why is sin heritable?

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Sin is not inherited. Sin exists.

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Sin is not the cause of natural death.

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But because the first man did disobey God sin entered into the universe. The penalty for that disobedience was death.

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Death entered into the universe. Therefore death exists.

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These laws are in place just as all the other laws put in place to control the universe.

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You're personifying. Humans are capable of disobedience. One can described what constitutes disobedience, but we can't point to disobedience until it happens. It is an act, not an entity. There is no disobedience until there is a rule or order made by someone to disobey.Eve may have committed the first act of disobedience, but the description of what constituted disobedience came as soon as God made the rule and stated the consequences. (Genesis 2:17) This was before the woman was created.A&E sinned, but sin did not enter the "universe" as you put it or mankind. Since we agree sin is not inherited and sin is not the cause of natural death, why would you say the consequence is death?The threat was instant death, the actual consequences were very different.Death didn't enter the "universe" from the outside. As soon as God created biological organisms, death was inevitable. It had nothing to do with A&E.Gods were considered immortal. As soon as God made mortals, natural death was inevitable.As far as Genesis 3:19, if you look at the return to the ground as punishment, then it was only for Adam. Eve was made of bone and that wasn't part of her punishment.They weren't punished with natural death. As biological organisms that was inevitable. They ultimately lost the opportunity to eat from the tree of life, which the story doesn't tell us they even knew about it. So they lost as option they probably didn't know they had.So we agree that sin is not inherited and that sin is not the cause of natural death.
We disagree on Paul's logic, although I understand the purpose of his presentation. That's another topic.Edited by purpledawn, : Typo

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Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

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Paul was not the only bible writer to tell us that sin is inheritable....Paul was not misleading anyone. He was a student and teacher of the Mosaic law...he didnt come up with his own theology.

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Neither of the verses deals with the Mosaic Law. You picked a song and a parable, both written in poetic style. Neither is saying that sin is inherited. Mankind has the choice to obey or disobey rules put before them. Just because we have that choice doesn't mean we have to disobey.Don't confuse words written in humility or self-deprecation to be fact.Even Job's friend told him he was talking nonsense.Illness and genetic issues aside, in reality, sin is not a thing to be inherited.

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Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

I did not as of yet look at what verses the poster used.
But are you suggesting that God's truth cannot be conveyed in a poem or in a song ? Psalm 119 is one big long song. Would you say that no truth from the Torah was portrayed in Psalm 119 because it is a song ?The story of Cain and Abel following the disobedience of Adam strongly indicates that sin was by then a power within Cain.God warned Cain that this lurking sin was trying to master him but he should master it instead. If you think about it what God is saying to Cain is very much like the serpent of the past chapter is now inside of him. Something personified and evil is lurking at the door of Cain's psychological and spiritual heart.The student of Gameliel, Saul who became Paul, was well instructed in the Torah. And he had good reason for laying out the entrance and transmission of sin's nature in man after Adam's disobedience.And I do not count poetry as unable to speak truth nor that confirming passages about inherited sin are not found elsewhere in the OT as well. The sin lurking at the door of Cain's heart is now infested the whole race. It runs rampant dragging society down into greater and greater immorality. Even the very thoughts of the imaginations of people are one unbroken wicked video game of evil.The decline started from thier forefather Adam's ingesting the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. And Paul was right to say that through Adam sin entered into the world. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

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I did not as of yet look at what verses the poster used.
But are you suggesting that God's truth cannot be conveyed in a poem or in a song ?

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Nope. I said what I meant. Neither verse was saying that sin is inherited. Don't confuse words written in humility or self-deprecation to be fact. Sin is not an independent force.

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The decline started from thier forefather Adam's ingesting the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. And Paul was right to say that through Adam sin entered into the world.

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Ingesting of the fruit allowed A&E to know what constitutes a sinful action and what doesn't. Until then, they didn't know. All they had was the one rule, that we know of. That is why they were naked and unashamed. Without rules, they had nothing to disobey.Paul was right only in the sense that God created A&E with the ability to obey or disobey. That ability didn't change once A&E ate the fruit. They just had more rules to obey or disobey.The prototype was created with the ability to obey or disobey rules. Sin is not a thing that can be inherited. Some people are more prone to sin than others as shown by Cain and Abel.Mankind still has the ability to obey or disobey, whether one believes in Christ or not.

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Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

Hi PD, I don't think I am trying to make sin a living being.Disobedience happens when a rule or order is disobeyed.The man was the only one given the command. Therefore he was the only one who could disobey the command.I agree there is no disobedience unless there is a law, command, or rule to disobey.Paul tells us: The command was not given to the woman. So what did she disobey? God did not include her when he gave the man the order. She did not even exist at that time.The man is the only one that could disobey the order. The penalty of sin did enter into the universe.The penalty for sin is death.Death exists today. And you base your assertion on what?You don't base it on the Bible as it says: The text says he would die in the day he ate the fruit.It does not say instant death.The consequences was that he died in the day that God created the Heaven and the Earth as given in the history of that day.We know he died that day because he did not exist in the evening we find in Genesis 1:2. Death did not exist until the first man disobeyed according to the Bible.I know that is hard for someone who does not believe the Bible, to understand.If you have some scripture that states otherwise please present it.The laws of evolution would require death but the laws of God did not require death until it was made a part of the universe.As an aside just think how much vegetation could accumulate over an extended period of light that could be turned into coal, gas, and oil. Who says the man formed from the dust of the ground was mortal? The text says he became a living being. Death was the prescribed punishment.The returning to the earth was the natural process the body would take.Remember I do not and have not claimed this group of people had a spirit as modern man does. There is no place that this man and woman was made in the image/likeness of God is recorded.The man was formed from the dust of the ground. God then breathed the breath of life into him and he became a living being. He disobeyed they died.Why was death inevitable?Why would they need to eat of the tree of life?The only rules we know the man was ever given was to not eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.Other rules are infered as God had favor to one offering over the other from Cain and Abel. But we have no detail of any such rules. But natural death is the result of the first man's disobeying of a direct order from God.The result of this disobedience is that all living things die.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

I agree that they had one command, not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.I agree that they could obey or disobey this one unique command.But in Romans 7 after outlining his struggle with sin in his members Paul says: "Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death ?" (Rom 7:24) When did mankind receive "the body of this DEATH"? It was after Adam had eaten of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.So sin and death entered into the world through Adam's eating in disobedience of that tree.Before Adam had eaten no one could say that they needed deliverance from "the body of this death."It is true that obedience or disobedience is available to all people. I have no argument about that.But man has now a knowledge of good and evil. That does not mean man has the power of life to perform the good that he knows. Nor does man have the full life power to resist the evil that he knows.Man gained a knowledge of good and evil. And man is very proud of that knowledge. The body of this death to often prevents him from performing the good that he knows and agrees with in his mind. And the sin in his members drags him down so that he too often cannot resist the evil that he knows.He gained the knowledge. He is exceedingly proud of the knowledge. He does not have the full life power to live up to his knowledge. A law of sin and death makes him captive to a stronger force within him.For years I did not see the connection between this and Adam's eating of a fruit. Eventually, I decided that what entered into man's body brought sin and death.Now I do not pretend to understand everything about this. But Paul also says that the evil spirit is operating in the sons of disobedience, the sons of Adam: I do not understand everything about the entering into Adam's body a bad fruit and the operating of an evil spirit in fallen man. But Paul says that in his flesh dwells no good thing. And the contrary law of sin he sees operating in his members.Since God did not create man with this body of sin and death, I must assume that it came about when Adam ate of the fruit of the tree that God warned would bring death to him.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

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But natural death is the result of the first man's disobeying of a direct order from God.

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The result of this disobedience is that all living things die.

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I disagree. Natural death was already part of life. Due to A&E's disobedience mankind lost the potential to be immortal.That's what Paul's trying to sell, resurrection. Natural death didn't change after Jesus.Natural death is not a penalty.

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Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

Hi PD, What do you base that assertion on?We are talking about sin being inherited so the only place I know that mentions that is the Bible.So what in the Bible supports your position.Just because you disagree does not make you correct.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

I've been wavering on this one lately.
Hugh Ross of "Reasons to Believe" has given me some thoughtful objections that perhaps this is not the case.He points out that even for man to eat vegetation is the death of that vegetation. Maybe death entering the world has only to do with man.I've been pondering it lately a little more.Also I think the personification of Sin is biblical. I think this may agree with you. However, I think I can see the point that even when Satan is bound during the millennial kingdom, a sin nature is still in the living people on the earth.The "Person" part is bound for 1,000 years. Yet the evidence is that still the sinner is on earth and may not at all times cooperate with God.This is why Christ has to shepherd the nations with an iron rod.What do you think ?Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I never thought of that.Does that mean the Adam languishes in Hell as we speak?

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What do you base that assertion on?

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We are talking about sin being inherited so the only place I know that mentions that is the Bible.

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So what in the Bible supports your position.

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Just because you disagree does not make you correct.

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The A&E story tells us natural death is already part of life.The words of the Bible writers show me that sin is not inherited. Personifying sin or words of humility and self-deprecation do not make sin inherited. Sin is not a thing. It is an act of breaking the rules whether intentional or by accident.Cain sinned, Abel didn't. Same bloodline. Noah was righteous, which kept him and his family high and dry. In Genesis 18:23 Abraham asked God: And Abraham drew near and said Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked. So it wasn't assumed that all mankind was wicked.A&E were given the ability to make choices. If they didn't have that ability, there would have been no need for God to threaten death. Also by threatening early death, that meant death was possible before the fruit was eaten.The A&E story doesn't tell us that A&E knew about the Tree of Life. The narrator tells the audience it is there, but the audience isn't told that A&E know of the tree. When God throws them out of the garden it is more of an act to prevent them from finding the tree.I agree that disagreeing with you doesn't make me correct, just as you disagreeing with me doesn't make you correct, hence the debate. Natural death was already in their makeup, otherwise the tree of life would have been redundant. Natural death wasn't a punishment, but the loss of a chance at immortality was a consequence.The tree of life isn't really a major point in the story. Like I said, the story doesn't tell us that A&E even knew about the lost opportunity. IMO, it became more important after the resurrection concept seeped into the religion.I like this article: Chatta'ah (sin) & 'Avon (iniquity)
I think it does a better job of presenting what the ancient Jews understood.Sin Iniquity is the evil inclination. God created man with good and evil inclinations. From what I've read, the evil inclination is necessary for procreation. Depending on how one reads the A&E story determines whether one feels God intended for A&E to procreate whether they ate from the tree or not.The good and evil inclinations (instincts) are inherited. Rules serve to control the evil inclinations within a civilization.

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Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

Not so. This was not the tree of natural life. It was the tree of divine life.The tree of life represented the life of God Himself. It is God's eternal purpose to dispense His life into man that God and man may be united.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

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But in Romans 7 after outlining his struggle with sin in his members Paul says:

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"Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death ?" (Rom 7:24)

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When did mankind receive "the body of this DEATH"? It was after Adam had eaten of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

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Paul's personification of his own inner battle to do right or wrong, doesn't affect anyone else. We have to look at what Paul meant by personifying sin and death. He isn't talking about physical death. Romans 6:23: A Pothole in the Romans Road (I know you didn't quote 6:23, but it's the name of the article.)

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Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

Hi Jay, I think a lot of things but most of them turn out wrong. But when I accept what the Word says I find myself on solid foundation.Now as to what I think. Satan is the personification of Sin.We have a sin nature we receive at birth because the first man sold us into slavery by eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.This disobedience separated mankind from God, and also introduced death into the universe.Abel is the first thing we know that died. The young man Lamech killed was the second.The fruit the man and woman ate was converted from fruit to energy. Satan can make no one sin. He can tempt them. Like you setting cookies on the table or have candy laying around the house with a bunch of kids in the house.But when Satan is bound for a 1000 years where are all his angels they have not been bound they are still on the loose and yes man will still disobey the rules that Jesus sets up during this time.Zechariah tells us in chapter 14 that when Jesus returns to the place He left the earth and sets up His earthly kingdom that there will be people who do not conform to His rules will suffer for that disobedience. That tells me they will be able to exercise their freewill to choose to obey or disobey.

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi PD, The A&E story tells us. Verse 17 tells us that the man would die in the day he ate the fruit of a specific tree.This infers that if he did not eat of that fruit he would not die.So no that tells us death was not already a part of life.If it was why the command with the penalty of eating being death? I agree that sin as described in the Bible is the disobedience of rules and laws that God has put forth.I also gave you a scripture that tells us where there is no law there is no transgression. God did not threaten early death.God decreed if and when the man ate the fruit he would die that day.The man did die that day as he did not exist at Genesis 1:2.So your conclusion is in error. Wrong.God created man and gave him a choice.God gave man a command not to eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.Man could choose to eat the fruit or he could choose not to eat the fruit.When man ate the fruit he came to know good and evil. According to God man did not have this ability but acquired it by eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.So no man did not have the sin nature before disobeying God.Therefore man could not be allowed to eat of the fruit of the tree of life because if he did he would live forever with a sinful nature in him.This brought about the need for mankind to be bought back out of this slavery that the first man sold them into.At the present:
My spirit has been born again. It is sinless as the Holy Spirit has sealed it.
My mind is in the process of being redeemed.
When Jesus comes back I will receive a body that is incapable of sin. These good and evil inclinations you say are inherited is what we refer to as the original sin nature which means man is prone to sin.Paul tells us it is a war that must be fought constantly. Paul said there was part of him that delighted in the law of the Lord but in his flesh dwelt a nature that loved to sin.Paul realized that the law he had learned as a Pharisee could not deliver him. So he ask the question who could deliver him.Then he thanked God that through Jesus Christ our Lord he had deliverance, and could serve the Lord in his mind even though the flesh still had the sin nature in it.All mankind are sinners.They are divided into two groups.Saved sinners and condemned sinners.Which group are you in?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."