Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Oil spill conspiracy
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 31 of 101 (563600)
06-06-2010 1:50 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by DC85
06-06-2010 1:38 AM


What do you want him to send to it? Do you want him to fire nukes at it? Do you want him declare war on the hole? What is it expect the Government to do about it? What do you think they can do about it? That's all Taz and I are really asking you
What was the estimate Taz told us? 5-30 billion dollars for clean up? Plus irreversible damages?
If I was the President, I would be in contact with every single deep water salvage company, or indiviual, and offer a 1-2 billion dollar reward for anyone who can stop it. Then I would coordinate all the efforts with what BP is trying to do.
When it was all said and done, I would then sue BP for the money back. Either we win, because every day that we don't have oil spilling into the ocean, is probably millions, and millions of dollars we will save in clean-up costs.
Don't you think BP would be extremely happy for the help? It would save them money too.
Even if we couldn't cap it, after trying, we sure could find a way of scooping up all the oil in the ocean before it reaches the shores, tell me thats something we couldn't do? Don't we have a ?Navy, Coast Guard, and hundreds of fishing boats that currently are not fishing? Why not put them to good use and start corralling the oil?
Isn't all this obvious? We don't have a leader in the white house, we have a politician.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by DC85, posted 06-06-2010 1:38 AM DC85 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Taz, posted 06-06-2010 3:52 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 52 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-11-2010 9:56 AM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 59 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-12-2010 6:43 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 380 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 32 of 101 (563601)
06-06-2010 2:10 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by riVeRraT
06-06-2010 1:43 AM


Why aren't we prepared for something like this? Isn't there like 30,000 oil rigs off our shores? Shouldn't we expect one of them to fail and cause a disaster like this?
That's a good question however my point is that we aren't.
A better question would be is why we have that many rigs and why Oil companies have gone largely unregulated and allowed to drill where we aren't able to deal with it?
government so inept at trying to find a solution,
Often... where have you been?
or putting up a monetary incentive for someone who could?
Who do you know of? Please enlighten us.
PArk a freakin nuke sub on it, I don't care, but at least try, we are not even trying, we are just leaving up to BP.
Yes because wasting money and resources on things that won't work make sense.
BP are the only ones who remotely have any kind of clue and the equipment to deal with this....
all I need is the will,
Yes because having the will and the desire to do and have something always makes it happen.
and to get off my silly ass
And sit on the hole to plug it?
Edited by DC85, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by riVeRraT, posted 06-06-2010 1:43 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by riVeRraT, posted 06-10-2010 11:31 PM DC85 has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 33 of 101 (563606)
06-06-2010 3:34 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by riVeRraT
06-06-2010 1:29 AM


*Sigh*
Riverrat, this is why sometimes I have avoided to talk directly to you in the past. Reading your comments is like watching an episode of the twightlight zone.
riverrat writes:
I see your still a big fucking idiot, and totally miss all my points and now your up to putting words in my mouth.
Do you realize how stupid your reply was? On one hand your sayingBP is going to handle everything, and pay for it all, and then you follow it up by saying that BP's stock is dropping.
NEWSFLASH, if BP goes under, who's going to pay for it? Or if it surpasses BP's assets, who will pay for it?
(1) bp makes an average of 20-30 billion dollars a year in profit. This is strictly just profit. I'm not even talking about revenues, savings, interests, etc. They are the 5th biggest oil company in the world. They have too much savings and assets to go under.
(2) My comment was a direct reply to your complaint that the government is doing nothing to cap the spill.
As I understand it, you have always been pro-business and anti-government. Am I correct to assume that you don't trust the government that much? If so, why are you bitching about the government letting a giant commercial entity like bp to deal with this? What's the alternative?
I can totally imagine that if the government had gotten involved you would have been bitching about our tax dollars being wasted on these operations.
So, my question is why are you complaining that Obama is letting bp does its thing? Aren't you pro-business and anti-government involvement?
Not to mention that some of the damage will be irreversible, who's going to take care of that?
In a way, every disaster does irreversible damage to the environment as well as people's livelihood.
The question is what do you want them to do? Don't you trust bp's decisions? Currently, bp is spending about 10-50 million dollars a day over this issue. And soon, they will begin to have to pay reparations, fines, that will amount to billions per day.
In other words, they have the smartest people money can buy working on this problem. While bp will not go under as a result of this, they will undoubtedly lose a lot of investors and confidence. Financially, they will lose tens of billions over this matter. This is why we know for a fact that they are doing everything humanly possible to end this disaster.
So, my question to you again. Are you still pro-business and anti-government involvement or not? Would you rather see tax dollars bearing the full weight of the price tag?
I also never said I could do a better job than an engineer, even though I have many times in my trade. Engineers are not always the brightest people in all my experiences, but they do have training. Engineers deal with things that are already known. When it comes time to truely MCGyver something, very few engineers will pass the grade. If they all goo, then they would all be considered great engineers.
Ok.
There also happens to be a web-site dedicated to suggestions on what to do. Yes, I put my suggestions in. I deal with leaks all the time in my trade in a much smaller scale, and above water, but my head has been dealing with these types of circumstances for 28 years. I am perfectly capable of making a good suggestion on how to deal with this. Not to mention I have been working on the water also for 34 years, so I am familiar with maritime circumstances. I've built my own cranes (on a boat), water jets for doing pilings, and have raised over 50 sunken boats. All engineered from my high school drop-out head, thank you very much.
If so, could you give us a suggestion on how we could prevent methane crystals from forming under the bell when they tried to use it to cap the spill?
We don't need him to monitor it, we need him to send all we got at it. My foot was in your ass, not my mouth.
Sorry, I don't bend that way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by riVeRraT, posted 06-06-2010 1:29 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by riVeRraT, posted 06-11-2010 12:11 AM Taz has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 34 of 101 (563607)
06-06-2010 3:52 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by riVeRraT
06-06-2010 1:50 AM


riverrat writes:
If I was the President, I would be in contact with every single deep water salvage company, or indiviual, and offer a 1-2 billion dollar reward for anyone who can stop it. Then I would coordinate all the efforts with what BP is trying to do.
Who are you and what have you done with riverrat?
Your comments in this matter are so not riverrat. What ever happened to government involvement = evil?
When it was all said and done, I would then sue BP for the money back. Either we win, because every day that we don't have oil spilling into the ocean, is probably millions, and millions of dollars we will save in clean-up costs.
Don't you think BP would be extremely happy for the help? It would save them money too.
Ever heard of cluster fuck?
Even if we couldn't cap it, after trying, we sure could find a way of scooping up all the oil in the ocean before it reaches the shores, tell me thats something we couldn't do? Don't we have a ?Navy, Coast Guard, and hundreds of fishing boats that currently are not fishing? Why not put them to good use and start corralling the oil?
Seriously... have you ever tried separating oil from water? Even though the two don't mix, it's extremely hard to just scoop up the oil in a large scale operation.
Yes, they have the ships and manpower. No, they don't have the right equipment for every ship in the fleet to start scooping up the oil.
4 - 8 million gallons of oil a day have been spilling into the gulf for over a month now. That's 4,000,000 to 8,000,000 gallons a day. The oil covered area is about the state of Indiana. And in a couple weeks, the oil will reach a primary gulf stream that will take the oil straight out into the Atlantic Ocean. In other words, in a month, we could potentially see the oil reach as far as the Northern Atlantic Ocean.
Why am I telling you all of this? Because I don't think you understand the true magnitude of the problem. The affected area is bigger than you realize, and it's getting bigger and bigger everyday. Just how many ships do you think it will take to scour the Gulf of Mexico and the Northern Atlantic Ocean? They currently have about a thousand ships on site performing various tasks. And that number is nothing compared to the size of the affected area.
Isn't all this obvious? We don't have a leader in the white house, we have a politician.
Again, who are you and what have you done with riverrat? Whatever happened to pro-business anti-government?
While you're at it, why don't you blame Obama for the corrupt oil rig inspectors they have found in the past few weeks? The inspectors left from the Bush era have been found to be sleeping with the oil companies... literally. Not only have they been accepting generous gifts and job offers, someone actually got pregnant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by riVeRraT, posted 06-06-2010 1:50 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by riVeRraT, posted 06-11-2010 12:19 AM Taz has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(2)
Message 35 of 101 (563633)
06-06-2010 7:25 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by riVeRraT
06-06-2010 1:43 AM


He who controls the oil...
Why aren't we prepared for something like this? Isn't there like 30,000 oil rigs off our shores? Shouldn't we expect one of them to fail and cause a disaster like this?
Yeah - except BP promised that it would all be fine, and the government regulators said it was therefore OK for them not to bother publishing their emergency plans.
Maybe its time to stop sucking the cocks of oil companies and having stringent governmental (or otherwise independent) oversight?
But doing that would be fascist communism, according to some...
When I work in someones house, and a pipe breaks, I don't sit and wait for the water company to come and shut it off, I go into over drive and find a way to stop the leak.
Indeed. But then, the pipe is in your house and the water company is not.
With the oil pipe, the experts about the oil pipe are on site. It would be like the plumbers that put in the pipes to your house bursting a water mains by mistake and waiting for the government to come into fix it rather than fixing themselves. The water company might fear that the government would fix the water leak by rendering the mains line useless, cutting off people from water (and thus revenue).
BP are on site, they know the details of the equipment, they have the expertise, experience, on site knowledge and the human resources as well as the responsibility to clean up their mess.
And then they kind of covered up how bad it was, cocked up the booming process, used controversial cleanup materials, and blocked third parties from getting involved (presumably to avoid people realizing how bad it was) assuring the world it was all fine and would be under control in short measure.
But thems the breaks when we allow companies to grow so large: They gain a lot of power and influence. It happened in the financial markets when regulation was relaxed, it's happened in the oil industry. Profit seeking companies will cut every corner, find every loophole...they are designed to be very efficient at doing so. The larger the company, the more the loopholes benefit them and the less likely they'll be held accountable for doing it. Many of those loopholes are safety and environmental responsibilities. Because anybody that is serious about environmental issues is a green-assed pinko-commie fag to paraphrase the kind of attitude one gets from so many people that get elected.
Fuck the environment, give us the gold.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by riVeRraT, posted 06-06-2010 1:43 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by riVeRraT, posted 06-11-2010 12:15 AM Modulous has replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4190 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 36 of 101 (563667)
06-06-2010 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by hooah212002
06-06-2010 1:23 AM


I realize that. I was just adding my 3 cents (inflation)

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by hooah212002, posted 06-06-2010 1:23 AM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 37 of 101 (563668)
06-06-2010 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Dr Adequate
06-05-2010 2:59 PM


Re: Idiocy deserves no reply
Do you still think I was Poe'd?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-05-2010 2:59 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 38 of 101 (563669)
06-06-2010 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Coyote
06-06-2010 12:57 AM


The right not to buy health insurance?
C'mon, Coyote. Why would you jump on that bandwagon? Do you have the right to not pay auto insurance without severe penalties?
I travel a lot and I have one car, but I rarely use it, so often I forget that I have to pay insurance or renew it. My license gets suspended. Then I have to go find insurance for a car I barely ever drive, pay a fine and reinstate my license. If I don't then I can't rent a car in another state. It's fucking ridiculous, but what can I do about it? I don't have the right to NOT pay auto insurance.
But it helps the over-all auto insurance pool and I get that. Same with health care.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Coyote, posted 06-06-2010 12:57 AM Coyote has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 39 of 101 (563672)
06-06-2010 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Buzsaw
06-05-2010 11:12 PM


Re: RiVerRaT is right.
patterned after Chivas's Venezuela.
Chavez, Hugo Chavez. Get our spic names right.
Now, before the folks who consistently label me as a racist for bashing Obama, the man running for Congress in Florida, blacker than Obama, Retired Col Allan West, is the man I would support for president in 2012.
Don't worry, I can make nigger jokes because I have a friend who knows a guy who has a sister that works with a dude that drinks his coffee black, so...
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Buzsaw, posted 06-05-2010 11:12 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Taz, posted 06-06-2010 12:24 PM onifre has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 40 of 101 (563674)
06-06-2010 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by onifre
06-06-2010 12:16 PM


Re: RiVerRaT is right.
onifre writes:
Don't worry, I can make nigger jokes because I have a friend who knows a guy who has a sister that works with a dude that drinks his coffee black, so...
Like Steve Blair?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100604/ts_ynews/ynews_ts2425
Now, it's ok for him to make racist comments because he's got black friends. Just remember that he's got black friends, just like every freakin' racist out there.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by onifre, posted 06-06-2010 12:16 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by onifre, posted 06-06-2010 12:28 PM Taz has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 41 of 101 (563675)
06-06-2010 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Taz
06-06-2010 12:24 PM


Re: RiVerRaT is right.
Now, it's ok for him to make racist comments because he's got black friends. Just remember that he's got black friends, just like every freakin' racist out there.
exactly. Cool story, I hadn't heard about that. Thanks for the link Taz.
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Taz, posted 06-06-2010 12:24 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Taz, posted 06-06-2010 2:36 PM onifre has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 42 of 101 (563691)
06-06-2010 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by onifre
06-06-2010 12:28 PM


Re: RiVerRaT is right.
Needless to say, mounting pressure from protesters have forced the school officials to issue an apology and stop whitening the kids' faces. They issued this apology yesterday. Steve Blair also got fired from his radio show.
You know what the funny part about this story? Those kids whose faces the school officials wanted some repainting done to make them whiter were actual kids that go to that school. I kid you not. The school children and teachers chose those kids to represent the faces of their school. white, latino, and black kids. But apparently, the non-white kids' skin had to be whiten for some damn reason. The artist started whitening their faces but stopped at the forehead because his conscience got to him.
How would you like it if your kid's principal told you your kid's face wasn't white enough for the mural?
Take a close look, folks. That's the new face of racism. They will deny up and down that they are racists. They will even tell you that they have black friends. They only pretend to be tolerant because it's no longer fashionable or politically correct to appear intolerant. But deep down inside they still want white supremacy, and this means they will let it slip every once in a while.
The racist bastards of that town actually drove up to the artists while they were painting with school children helping them and yelled out racial slurs. But when this story got out, they apologized and insisted this was not about race.
Again, take a close look, folks.
Added by edit.
Perhaps I should have been more clear. I'm a racist. It's not something I'm proud of. It's not something I chose to be. It's a part of me that I'm trying to overcome.
The point is it takes one to know one. *hint hint*
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by onifre, posted 06-06-2010 12:28 PM onifre has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 43 of 101 (564553)
06-10-2010 11:31 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by DC85
06-06-2010 2:10 AM


"DC85" writes:
A better question would be is why we have that many rigs and why Oil companies have gone largely unregulated and allowed to drill where we aren't able to deal with it?
Their back up plans are regulated and approved by our government.
BP are the only ones who remotely have any kind of clue and the equipment to deal with this....
Since when should we trust BP?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by DC85, posted 06-06-2010 2:10 AM DC85 has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 44 of 101 (564564)
06-11-2010 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Taz
06-06-2010 3:34 AM


"Taz writes:
(1) bp makes an average of 20-30 billion dollars a year in profit. This is strictly just profit. I'm not even talking about revenues, savings, interests, etc. They are the 5th biggest oil company in the world. They have too much savings and assets to go under.
well then please explain why all the news is reporting that BP may go under from this?
As I understand it, you have always been pro-business and anti-government. Am I correct to assume that you don't trust the government that much? If so, why are you bitching about the government letting a giant commercial entity like bp to deal with this? What's the alternative?
Listen, my pro business attitude is not one that you imagine. I am for business, responsible business. That is how I operate mine. I am all about integrity, and taking responsibility for your fuck-ups.
The government is there to serve and protect, and right now we need protection from BP, who seems to be acting irresponsible, and the government is being slow to do something, or take over.
I can totally imagine that if the government had gotten involved you would have been bitching about our tax dollars being wasted on these operations.
So, my question is why are you complaining that Obama is letting bp does its thing? Aren't you pro-business and anti-government involvement?
I know you don't believe this, but my view on things is larger unbiased, no matter how my arguments online may sound. I see a problem, and I address it.
My point of view, and my motive, is to protect the earth. Priority #1. which is considered to be a liberal view. I don't give a fuck about politics, I care about our environment. If Bush was in there, your view about this would be totally different, and mine would still be the same.
Our governments job is to serve and protect. Me, and the majority of Americans feel like Obama is not protecting us right now. Bp was Obama's biggest supporter. Are we to trust the company that may have been negligent to begin with? Isn't everything $ and sense to them? Do they really care about our environment?
The question is what do you want them to do? Don't you trust bp's decisions? Currently, bp is spending about 10-50 million dollars a day over this issue. And soon, they will begin to have to pay reparations, fines, that will amount to billions per day.
In other words, they have the smartest people money can buy working on this problem. While bp will not go under as a result of this, they will undoubtedly lose a lot of investors and confidence. Financially, they will lose tens of billions over this matter. This is why we know for a fact that they are doing everything humanly possible to end this disaster.
I know that, and I agree with that, but there is a part of me that doesn't trust them, since they caused this to begin with, and there is an investigation to see if they were really negligent on this matter.
So, my question to you again. Are you still pro-business and anti-government involvement or not? Would you rather see tax dollars bearing the full weight of the price tag?
Yes I would. Then charge BP later. Actually I think that is what is happening right now. There is a oil spill trust fund that needs to be accessed, and BP should put the money back.
If so, could you give us a suggestion on how we could prevent methane crystals from forming under the bell when they tried to use it to cap the spill?
I see lots and lots of good suggestions. I do not know if they would actually work or not. I don't even know if my own suggestions would work. I am the kind of person that does not say the word quit, or give up on a scenario to easily. I just figure with the amount of suggestions out there, why aren't we trying more often to cap it, and leaving it solely up to a company that caused it? Aren't they big business driven by money, not principal? Maybe we aren't informed enough to even be discussing this.
It's the principal here that is important, not politics.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Taz, posted 06-06-2010 3:34 AM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by ooh-child, posted 06-11-2010 1:20 PM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 58 by Taz, posted 06-12-2010 3:31 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 60 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-12-2010 7:09 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 45 of 101 (564565)
06-11-2010 12:15 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Modulous
06-06-2010 7:25 AM


Re: He who controls the oil...
"Modulous" writes:
Yeah - except BP promised that it would all be fine, and the government regulators said it was therefore OK for them not to bother publishing their emergency plans.
I was under the impression that all disaster plans were to be approved by the government. can you prove otherwise? I am curious. If Bush's administration was to blame for this, then let's place blame where blame is due.
BP are on site, they know the details of the equipment, they have the expertise, experience, on site knowledge and the human resources as well as the responsibility to clean up their mess.
At this point, I don't completely trust BP, even if they are the best qualified or not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Modulous, posted 06-06-2010 7:25 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Modulous, posted 06-11-2010 4:11 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024