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Author Topic:   Cosmology Principle vs the actual center of the Universe
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 31 of 38 (581188)
09-14-2010 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Dogmafood
09-13-2010 10:44 AM


Why am I wrong in thinking that if there was a BB then the actual location where it occurred must be the centre of the universe?
One of the well worn analogies is a balloon where the surface (the 2 dimensional surface) of the balloon represents the universe. As you inflate the balloon it stretches evenly everywhere without a center of inflation. The same principle applies to the inflation of our 3 dimensional universe.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

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Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 349 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 32 of 38 (581232)
09-14-2010 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Modulous
09-14-2010 8:19 AM


No - it is a reasonable representation. Arbitrarily pick any spatial coordinate on the right hand side of the diagram as of 'special interest'. Now move to the left, (keeping the same spatial coordinates but going backwards in time). Eventually you'll arrive at the big bang. Now pick another spot and do the same.
Now look at the big bang. Point to a single spatial coordinate that exists that is not at the big bang at the time of the big bang.
You can't.
Why? Because the big bang happened every'where'
I am fairly certain that I understand the 4 dimensions x y z and t.
It seems to me that you are saying that all of the galaxies in the universe are not moving apart but that there is an increasing amount of space between them. That doesnt make sense to me. Nor do I see how that negates the possibility of a centre. All the stuff that makes up the earth is not where it was 13.5 billion yrs ago. Something has moved.
Look at this video. When I imagine the BB I see something like this only shaped as a sphere.
Pause the video at the 5 second mark. Pick a speck on the right hand side of the screen in the middle of the band. Thats us. When we look around everything looks the same. How do we know that we are seeing all the way to the left side of the screen/disk/universe and not just 13.5 billion light yrs worth of galaxies in a globe surrounding us locally? Like a small bubble on the right side of the screen

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Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by cavediver, posted 09-14-2010 6:21 PM Dogmafood has replied
 Message 38 by Flatland, posted 02-21-2011 4:46 AM Dogmafood has not replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 33 of 38 (581241)
09-14-2010 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Dogmafood
09-14-2010 5:33 PM


It seems to me that you are saying that all of the galaxies in the universe are not moving apart but that there is an increasing amount of space between them.
That is exactly what he is saying.
That doesnt make sense to me.
Tough
Look at this video. When I imagine the BB I see something like this only shaped as a sphere.
Yep. That's why everyone has a completely wrong idea about the Big Bang: from watching videos like this one. The Big Bang is simply the beginning of the expansion of the Universe. It is in no way an explosion - it wasn't Big and it didn't go Bang.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Dogmafood, posted 09-14-2010 6:36 PM cavediver has replied

  
Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 349 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 34 of 38 (581246)
09-14-2010 6:36 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by cavediver
09-14-2010 6:21 PM


it wasn't Big and it didn't go Bang.
Well now why would they go and call it the Big Bang then?
Are there any books that you would recommend?

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Replies to this message:
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 Message 36 by cavediver, posted 09-14-2010 6:47 PM Dogmafood has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 35 of 38 (581248)
09-14-2010 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Dogmafood
09-14-2010 6:36 PM


Dogmafood writes:
Well now why would they go and call it the Big Bang then?
I think that name came from Fred Hoyle, who did not agree with the theory and was attempting to ridicule it. The name stuck.

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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 36 of 38 (581249)
09-14-2010 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Dogmafood
09-14-2010 6:36 PM


Well now why would they go and call it the Big Bang then?
As nwr says above...
Are there any books that you would recommend?
"The first three minutes" by Steven Weinberg, if it's still available.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Dogmafood, posted 09-14-2010 6:36 PM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
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Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 349 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 37 of 38 (581251)
09-14-2010 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by cavediver
09-14-2010 6:47 PM


"The first three minutes" by Steven Weinberg,
Thanks. Looks like a bit of a heavy read. Should keep me quiet for awhile.

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Flatland
Junior Member (Idle past 4445 days)
Posts: 10
Joined: 01-30-2010


Message 38 of 38 (605606)
02-21-2011 4:46 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Dogmafood
09-14-2010 5:33 PM


Dogmafood writes:
No - it is a reasonable representation. Arbitrarily pick any spatial coordinate on the right hand side of the diagram as of 'special interest'. Now move to the left, (keeping the same spatial coordinates but going backwards in time). Eventually you'll arrive at the big bang. Now pick another spot and do the same.
Now look at the big bang. Point to a single spatial coordinate that exists that is not at the big bang at the time of the big bang.
You can't.
Why? Because the big bang happened every'where'
I am fairly certain that I understand the 4 dimensions x y z and t.
It seems to me that you are saying that all of the galaxies in the universe are not moving apart but that there is an increasing amount of space between them. That doesnt make sense to me. Nor do I see how that negates the possibility of a centre. All the stuff that makes up the earth is not where it was 13.5 billion yrs ago. Something has moved.
Look at this video. When I imagine the BB I see something like this only shaped as a sphere.
Pause the video at the 5 second mark. Pick a speck on the right hand side of the screen in the middle of the band. Thats us. When we look around everything looks the same. How do we know that we are seeing all the way to the left side of the screen/disk/universe and not just 13.5 billion light yrs worth of galaxies in a globe surrounding us locally? Like a small bubble on the right side of the screen
The universe does not have a spatial center. What this means is that if you travel in one direction long enough you will eventually end back at your starting point. The universe essentially loops back on itself in all directions (this is assuming a finite universe of course). How can there be a center in such a system?

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