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Author Topic:   Creation as presented in Genesis chapters 1 and 2
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 556 of 607 (584514)
10-02-2010 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 555 by ringo
10-02-2010 4:52 AM


Re: Day
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
Actually, it doesn't say anything about light at all. He might just as well have been created in the dark.
1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
An examination of the text.
God created man in his own image.
God created them male and female.
God gave them instructions.
God saw every thing that he had made, and it was very good.
After all this was accomplished.
The evening and the following morning was the sixth day.
It wasn't dark until evening came.
ringo writes:
Don't assume anything. As I said, there's no point in covering a lot of other points until you understand that "in the day" does not refer to a specific day.
But Genesis 5:1 says "in the day" refering to the specific day that God created man in His image. Which was the sixth day.
Does the text say God created man and after that the evening and the morning was the sixth day?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 555 by ringo, posted 10-02-2010 4:52 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 557 by ringo, posted 10-02-2010 11:52 AM ICANT has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 557 of 607 (584516)
10-02-2010 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 556 by ICANT
10-02-2010 11:41 AM


Re: Day
ICANT writes:
The evening and the following morning was the sixth day.
It wasn't dark until evening came.
Somebody else already explained that to you. In the Jewish calendar, the dark comes before the light. In any case, nothing in Genesis suggests that man was created during daylight.
ICANT writes:
But Genesis 5:1 says "in the day" refering to the specific day that God created man in His image. Which was the sixth day.
Yawn. Been there, done that. "In the day" does not mean a specific day.
ICANT writes:
Does the text say God created man and after that the evening and the morning was the sixth day?
The text doesn't specify whether man was created during the evening or the morning. It could have been either or both.

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 556 by ICANT, posted 10-02-2010 11:41 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 558 by ICANT, posted 10-02-2010 12:45 PM ringo has replied
 Message 559 by ICANT, posted 10-02-2010 12:45 PM ringo has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 558 of 607 (584524)
10-02-2010 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 557 by ringo
10-02-2010 11:52 AM


Re: Day
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
The text doesn't specify whether man was created during the evening or the morning. It could have been either or both.
Well let me think about that.
It could have been during the daylight period or it could have been during the dark period or it could have began one period and ended in the other period.
I still get the sixth day which is the specific day "in the day" in Genesis 5:1 refers too.
Yep you just proved my point thank you.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 557 by ringo, posted 10-02-2010 11:52 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 560 by ringo, posted 10-02-2010 1:00 PM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 559 of 607 (584525)
10-02-2010 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 557 by ringo
10-02-2010 11:52 AM


Re: Day
Removed double post
Edited by ICANT, : Double post

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 557 by ringo, posted 10-02-2010 11:52 AM ringo has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 560 of 607 (584528)
10-02-2010 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 558 by ICANT
10-02-2010 12:45 PM


Re: Day
ICANT writes:
ringo writes:
The text doesn't specify whether man was created during the evening or the morning. It could have been either or both.
Well let me think about that.
I find it bizarre that you haven't thought about it before, while you were spending half a century trying to turn Genesis upside-down.
ICANT writes:
I still get the sixth day which is the specific day "in the day" in Genesis 5:1 refers too.
Nope. Different story, different context. "In the day" still refers to an indeterminate time period. It can be translated "when" (and often is). Even if a specific day is mentioned within that time period, as in Genesis 5, you can't use it as an excuse to change the meaning of "in the day".

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 558 by ICANT, posted 10-02-2010 12:45 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 561 by ICANT, posted 10-02-2010 1:09 PM ringo has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 561 of 607 (584532)
10-02-2010 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 560 by ringo
10-02-2010 1:00 PM


Re: Day
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
Nope. Different story, different context. "In the day" still refers to an indeterminate time period. It can be translated "when" (and often is). Even if a specific day is mentioned within that time period, as in Genesis 5, you can't use it as an excuse to change the meaning of "in the day".
Are you saying the history of the man in Genesis 5:1 is not the history of the man created in the image/likeness of God during the sixth day?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 560 by ringo, posted 10-02-2010 1:00 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 562 by ringo, posted 10-02-2010 1:21 PM ICANT has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 562 of 607 (584535)
10-02-2010 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 561 by ICANT
10-02-2010 1:09 PM


Re: Day
ICANT writes:
Are you saying the history of the man in Genesis 5:1 is not the history of the man created in the image/likeness of God during the sixth day?
Nope. Same events, different account.

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 561 by ICANT, posted 10-02-2010 1:09 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 563 by ICANT, posted 10-03-2010 2:10 PM ringo has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 563 of 607 (584685)
10-03-2010 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 562 by ringo
10-02-2010 1:21 PM


Re: Day
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
ICANT writes:
Are you saying the history of the man in Genesis 5:1 is not the history of the man created in the image/likeness of God during the sixth day?
Nope. Same events, different account.
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Event man was created in the image/likeness of God.
Genesis 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Event the story of the man created in the image/likeness of God and his descendants.
Event 1 creation of man.
Event 2 history of man.
Explain how these are the same events.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 562 by ringo, posted 10-02-2010 1:21 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 564 by ringo, posted 10-03-2010 2:23 PM ICANT has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 564 of 607 (584689)
10-03-2010 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 563 by ICANT
10-03-2010 2:10 PM


Re: Day
ICANT writes:
quote:
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Event man was created in the image/likeness of God.
quote:
Genesis 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Event the story of the man created in the image/likeness of God and his descendants.
Event 1 creation of man.
Event 2 history of man.
Explain how these are the same events.
Explain how God creating man in His own image is the same event as God creating man in His own image? Don't be silly.

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 563 by ICANT, posted 10-03-2010 2:10 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 565 by jar, posted 10-03-2010 2:38 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 570 by ICANT, posted 10-03-2010 9:54 PM ringo has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 565 of 607 (584691)
10-03-2010 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 564 by ringo
10-03-2010 2:23 PM


copy and paste is not all that new
Also the authors of Genesis 1 had access to all the stories written before them. And then the editors had all the scrolls. And then the redactors had access to all the edited scrolls. And then the Committees of Canon had access to all the edited scrolls and made their own breaks, redaction and edits. And the translators had access to all the edited and redacted books.
It was easy to steal the ideas of an earlier author and just claim that "God did it".

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 564 by ringo, posted 10-03-2010 2:23 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 568 by ICANT, posted 10-03-2010 9:34 PM jar has replied

purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3484 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 566 of 607 (584705)
10-03-2010 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 505 by ICANT
09-25-2010 4:46 PM


Re: The Meaning of Day - The Rerun
quote:
I guess you could call it in the day that I worked at the Church but that would not be accurate. Would it?
I guess you could call it in the age I worked at the Church but that would not be accurate either. Would it?
You are correct that the usage of "in the day" or age is not appropriate for your little scenario.
But the phrase "in the day" is appropriate for Genesis 2:4 and does not refer to a specific day as I've shown you several times in this thread. The idiom isn't that difficult.
4a was supposedly written by the Redactor. Chapter 5 is also considered to be the work of Redactor.
The J writer's story had it's purpose and neither the Priestly writing nor the Redactor had added their twist to the story. The Priestly writer knew of the J story but wrote his story differently for his own purpose. The Redactor worked to stitch the stories together so the exiles would be able to see stories that were familiar to them.
Since the majority of the people were illiterate, they only knew what they heard and probably just like the majority of people today, that stitching doesn't register. They see two stories.
Look at how they are broken up for the kids.
And It Was Real Good
God's Green Thumb
Notice that this author understands the "in the day" idiom. He starts: Back in the day ...when God first made the Earth, God looked down and he saw that there was no one to take care of it.
If you want to write your own version of the creation story, go for it, but admit that it is your own version. The stories we have in the Bible do not support your theory. You have to add to the stories to make them support your theory, which means you're writing your own version.

The Savior said There is no sin, but it is you who make sin when you do the things that are like the nature of adultery, which is called sin. --Gospel of Mary

This message is a reply to:
 Message 505 by ICANT, posted 09-25-2010 4:46 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 567 by ICANT, posted 10-03-2010 9:31 PM purpledawn has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 567 of 607 (584732)
10-03-2010 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 566 by purpledawn
10-03-2010 4:54 PM


Re: The Meaning of Day - The Rerun
Hi PD,
purpledawn writes:
But the phrase "in the day" is appropriate for Genesis 2:4 and does not refer to a specific day as I've shown you several times in this thread. The idiom isn't that difficult.
Can you explain why the authors of your sourse used the pharse
"Back in the day" in God's Green Thumb
But from the same source a little further in the book they use the phrase "Back in the days of Adam" in reference to Genesis 5
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 566 by purpledawn, posted 10-03-2010 4:54 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 576 by purpledawn, posted 10-04-2010 6:34 AM ICANT has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 568 of 607 (584733)
10-03-2010 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 565 by jar
10-03-2010 2:38 PM


Re: copy and paste is not all that new
Hi jar,
jar writes:
Also the authors of Genesis 1 had access to all the stories written before them.
That would mean they had access to the original story written by Moses.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 565 by jar, posted 10-03-2010 2:38 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 569 by jar, posted 10-03-2010 9:38 PM ICANT has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 569 of 607 (584737)
10-03-2010 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 568 by ICANT
10-03-2010 9:34 PM


Re: copy and paste is not all that new
Nonsense. It's unlikely Moses even existed much less wrote anything.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 568 by ICANT, posted 10-03-2010 9:34 PM ICANT has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 570 of 607 (584740)
10-03-2010 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 564 by ringo
10-03-2010 2:23 PM


Re: Day
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
Explain how God creating man in His own image is the same event as God creating man in His own image? Don't be silly.
OK I will rephrase the question for you.
In Genesis 1:27 God created man in the image/likeness of God.
In Genesis 5:1 we have the history of the man created in the image/likeness of God including all his descendants.
In Message 562 you said:
ringo writes:
ICANT writes:
Are you saying the history of the man in Genesis 5:1 is not the history of the man created in the image/likeness of God during the sixth day?
Nope. Same events, different account.
I wanted an explanation of how the creation of the man in the image/likeness of God that took place on day six.
Could be the same event as.
The history of the man who was created in the image/likeness of God including the history of his descendants.
You said they were the same event so please explain how they are the same event.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 564 by ringo, posted 10-03-2010 2:23 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 571 by ringo, posted 10-03-2010 10:00 PM ICANT has replied

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