I went over there and that's a ton to read from a laymen's perspective but I fail to see where anyone, kbertsche, Baumbgardner, or anyone over there is getting "their ass handed to them."
Unfortunately, and no disrespect intended, I think that is because of your lack of experience in reading scientific debate. Baumgardner lost just about all credibility in his first reply, sounding like an undergrad on a usenet sci group. This is followed by his extensive back peddling, selective replies, obsfuscation, and continued ass-hattery. Yes, there is some actual back-and-forth content hidden within the noise, but it is limited. If Baumgardner had conveyed himself in the manner of Bertsche and Morton, he may not have suffered the resulting complete loss of scientific credibility. As it stands, I wouldn't hire him as the liquid nitrogen loader...
The (sad?) fact is that just about every creationist I meet on the internet makes me think - idiot - from presentation if not content. This applies to our own EvC Kaichos Man, Ichiban, etc, all the way up to Baumgardner and Humphreys (Humphreys is in my field and his bullshit makes Baumgardner look a complete amateur) That is why I hope (and expect) that neither you nor Slevesque will remain creationists for much longer, as you are ruining my extrapolation of the above observation into a general rule...
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