What is the I in ID?

I believe in quran . i said it is true and i prooved that no one can write like it.
you claim that it is not , i asked you to write like 1/10 of it,but you did not answer .
you claimed and asked me to prove that your claiming is wrong.
what is your logic!!!!This message has been edited by dandon83, 07-29-2004 04:28 AM

Good for you. You haven't proved a thing, you haven't even provided a quote from it. That is a straight lie. because it's a very silly idea, one that you actually seems to think proves something. More intact than your it seems. You are the one making the extraordinary claim, it's upto YOU to prove it - not me to disprove it.
I was replying to YOUR claim that the koran was full of scientific proof.Your claim was made here in post 101: Do you have any? or is it a baseless assumption on your part?Can you name two or three of those things that have been recently proved by science?No?This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 07-29-2004 05:21 AM

Ifen, you asked in response to one of posts: Hopefully you'll understand my post in the context of this thread, where some are seeking a cause-effect mechanism testable by natural science to explain a supernatural or spiritual event. The questions I asked in my original post are similar in intent, I think, to your questions I quote above - to point out the problems of defining/confining the spiritual with simple natural concepts.I agree with much of your post - I just wanted to clarify my intent.Peace back at ya-

dandon writes: Dandon,I claim that Darwin's Origin of Speciesis correct. In order to prove me wrong, please "write like 1/10 of it."If you cannot, we can assume the theory of evolution is proven (by your odd logic...)

Sas,Caught it, thanks!I loved your point about Darwin's Origins. But to be confessional for a moment, what I wish is that I could write 1/10 as good as Mark Twain. That guy had an amazing way with language. And some very biting satire on the religion of his time.Mostly I like to examine and open up a question until I end up scratching my head wondering what is it now that I'm looking at.I don't have the physics or math so I'm not using this as an analogy but just as a point of departure for musing, but it's the wavicle thing about light. Particles are kind of things, and waves aren't and photons can act like either. So someimes the universe looks like its particles and sometimes waves?On the other hand I have a special delight in the woman who stated, " it's turtles all the way down"! If nothing else that solution has it's own goofy elegance that makes me laugh and feel happy in a kinda zen humored way.peace,
lfen

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So someimes the universe looks like its particles and sometimes waves?

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Everything, including you, is a particle and a wave. If you were moving fast enough (near the speed of light) your wavelength would become measurable. To calculate your wavelength you have to use de Broglie's formula:wavelength = h/m*v
Where wavelength is in meters and,
h= Plank's constant (6.6262x10^-34 joule seconds)
m= your mass in grams
v= your velocity in meters/secondIt is not possible to separate matter into particles and waves since matter is both at once.

For me it is Peter Matthiessen who I envy for linguistic skills - have you read his The Snow Leopard? Based on your posts I think you would enjoy it and its Buddhist undertones. A slightly more scientific version of the koan? This kind of thinking is important to science though few seem to practice it regularly - lateral thinking opens up new hypotheses and experiments. This might have brought us back on topic if the topic was "What is the D in ID?" - for one could argue "it's designers all the way back!"

Sas,I won't do the LOL thing which I think is often not the case, but this comment had me audibly chucking alone here in my study and I'm still grinning--designers all the way back indeed!But to focus on the I in ID. Intelligent, intelligence I'm thinking that word is too vague, or ambiguous, serves to many functions. And is saying Intelligent Design redundant? I mean I love redundancy it gives so much security. Someday I want to have a brass "Department of Redundancy Department" on my door.But I suspect this thread would it be better focused on whether it's designed or not first. Then if design can be established look at whether the design is intelligent or not.I mean to keep this simple isn't the crux of the argument whether the life, universe, and ???? is designed or evolved by random interactions? And only secondarily is the design to be evaluated for intelligence?peace,
lfen

In a sense to show one is to show the other, as you describe well in your comment that the phrase "intelligent design" is redundant.

when i asked charles knight to write 1/10 of the quran that was because he claimed that quran is man-wrote , not to prove if it is correct!

Before 1929 it was thought that gallacies or bit in haphazard manner seinilar to movement of the molecules of gazes however in 1929 a scintific break though turned this assumption up side down Hable discovered that these millions of phalanxes are gaudily distancing themselves from each other This process of distancing is getting accom plaited in great speed which some times is equal to a fraction of the speed of light Even those fallacies which are near to mear to our galaxy (Milk way) with the exception of Andromida, are in contentions process of expansion.This means that the size of the cosmos is in continuous expansion . Allah says "AND THE SKY WE HAVE CREATED BY HANDS WE WILL ENUZDE"(widen), which is in arabic — — ) As we know light is formed of seven different colors Each color has awe which has aseptic length vibration .The shortest awe the blue light has the highest vibration whereas the red light has the longest awe but it has the lowest vibration When Hable analyzed the light which comes from the galaxies he has studied he found that in all studied cases, with the exception of Andromida some other near by galaxies there is general widening of the red light . The more widening toward the red more distance of galaxies is from us After this discovering which was made by Hable it became evident that there are huge dark gaps behind these gaps there is a huge gravitational factor which leads to the red widening. Hence the cosmos is expanding from the point of start to the red ray. There fore aOwanic reality which states that We will widen has been now confirmed by science which assumes that the cosmos is having beginning from which it expands extends it self Allah says that He created the sky He is the one Who will expand it. This is what is going on now seine billions of years the Cosmos is in a continuos expansion. Many gastronomists have confirmed this fact. There fore it became an unchallenged and confirmed scientific fact. The cosmos is expanding the Earth is Globular rotates around itself rotates around the sun. All these are revealed in Dawn now since is confirming it Swore Irenic Verses in the light of science.is it possiple for a non-educated person to know that the cosmo is getting wider? can this be lies? do not forget that quran is the same since 1400 years ago.IF YOU WANT MORE , visit the web site Lady of Akita, Los Misterios Luminosos and Dolorosos | school of Faith reviewThis message has been edited by dandon83, 08-01-2004 05:01 AM

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don't eat lobster, shrimp, clams, catfish, shark, etc...however once your offspring develop a genetic disease cause you ate shrimp, clams, lobster, and all those other unclean creatures in exotic foods, don't blame God, cause he said these creatures are unclean to eat

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What about genetic diseases which are caused by copying mistakes, or extra or missing chromosomes, like Down's Syndrome?Those have nothing to do with diet.

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heard someone that was double jointed was helped by this type of treatment, now thats quite awesome, if true???

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There's no such thing as being "double jointed".

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I still believe the different kinds came from God, and the sub species common ancestors are these different kinds created by their common creator.

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How can I tell the difference between various "kinds"?Are humans and chimps the same "kind"?Are my housecat and Bengal tigers the same "kind"?

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Raz, I suppose to an atheist the intelligence to the different kinds genetic designs would have to be caused by an alien intelligence,

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Um, no.Natural processes/physics/chemistry/biology is adequate.No need to invoke the supernatural of any kind.

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and that is kind of interesting, how easily they can believe in aliens, and not in God.

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Do me a favor.Go to Home - American Atheists and find anything there which mentions how atheists think that genetic anything is caused by aliens.Then come back here and tell me all about it.

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If thought is knowledge than all we know is the map.

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But thought isn't just knowledge.Thought is perception and conception, too.We construct thought in the brain, we don't "record and replay."

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Take your computer programs. They have maps, addresses, routine calls that is what they know and that is how they function and they reference that. But something is happening that they don't know about at all. Electron gates are functioning for example as well as devices. The programs don't understand or know anything about that, they just know data in registers. The mind is something like that. It doesn't have a clue what really is. It knows numbers, maps, concepts.

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OK, so the mind doesn't know about neurons, except in an indirect way.So what?

Your website does not prove anything at all regarding science and the Koran.It is nothing but a bunch of very stretched, labored interpretations of very simple words and phrases from the Koran.When I clicked on the link "chlorophyll", I expected to learn about how the Koran includes a remarkable explanation of the biochemistry of plants.Instead, I find out that the authors interpret a single word, "green", in reference to instructions on harvesting crops, as indicating a description of chlorophyll.It is completely absurd.