What constitutes matters of Brotherhood and Fellowship?

No, I try and answer them in principle, if however there is something you think I have missed, please present it To fulfill all righteouness Since i dont know what you are after here, Ill let you answer first He was decended upon by the Spirit of God Yes He (the theif) was still under the old Covenant before jesus died and Jesus had power as God to forgive sins directly at that time, as he indicated many times.He then after his death, became the mediator of a new and better covenant. Hebrews chapter 9. While the testator is still alive he or she can do things directly or make changes to the Will before their death.After his death and resurrection he appointed a way for for forgiveness of sins to be applied and that was through Belief and baptism.We see this clearly in Acts chapter two, where Peter used the figurative KEYS, he was promised by Christ in matt 16. He then instructed people how to enter the kingdom, by Belief, repentance and baptism for the remission.This was Gods plan of the new and better covenant after his depature. A Will and Testament is only in effect after the DEATH of the testator.The theif on the cross had direct contact with the testator but did not need the conditions (in this instance baptism)of the new testament since the testator had power to forgive sins immediately and in that instance.We on the other hand have to follow the New testament or New covenant, since we d onot have direct contact with Jesus as he didHe is and was alsoLord of the Sabbath, even though he went by the Sabbath laws You as wellEAMEdited by EMA, : No reason given.Edited by EMA, : No reason given.Edited by EMA, : No reason given.Edited by EMA, : No reason given.

Jaywill sorry I have not gotten back to this post, I will get back to it as soon as possible today

We seemed to have evolved in this discussion from What Constitutes the Brotherhood and Fellowship? to "Is Baptism Necessary to be saved from eternal punishment?"To answer the original questions I would return to the matter of having the life of Christ. The Christians are called "brothers" because they share having the life of Jesus. Jesus is living in them. God is living in them. The Holy Spirit is living in them. Since they share the divine life which has been imparted into them by God, they are called "brothers".And it is not because they are males they are brothers. But it is because they are indwelt with by THE Elder Brother Jesus Christ. That unites them in one brotherhood.Before Ananias baptized Paul he refered to him as "brother Saul". It is not conclusive to me whether Ananias meant "Christian brother Saul" or "Jewish brother Saul".You may state your view on this (Acts 9:17). I don't think it could be proved either way. But I could be wrong.At any rate, one who has not become a possesser of the life of God cannot be regarded as a brother in the Christian brotherhood, I am pretty certain.Now fellowship is rather hard to pin down. It is the flowing out of this life from brother to brother. It is the dispensing of this Spirit of Christ from within a brother to another brother.
.I have to come back. I have been called away. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I hope services were insightful today, welcome back This is a concept I am not familiar with, is this something you have been taught always or have you developed this idea from scripture I never seen or hearf this distinction characterized as you have here. That pretty interesting perhaps you could clarify maybe we simply dont know on this area. I value your scriptural insight however, so do the dance, that dance of knowledgeMe B You Its now later, so get to it, ha ha This is true as you so capably put it all the time. But doesnt this involve a degree of faithfulness and devotion on the part of the believer Again since we do not accept the doctrine of Premillinilism and a thousand year reign, perhaps you could explain Do you derive this latitude from scripture, or is just a feeling ThanksEAMEdited by EMA, : No reason given.Edited by EMA, : No reason given.Edited by EMA, : No reason given.

Concerning discipline administered by Jesus to believers after the second coming of Christ: From the scripture. Do you believe in a 1,000 year millennial kingdom spoken of in Revelation 20? Count how many times "thousand years" is mentioned in Revelation 20. I want you to count it for yourself. You should notice six times.You should also notice that the time of the new heaven and new earth follows after the thousand years is mentioned. So we should see that from the end of the church age to the beginning of the eternal age of the new heaven and new earth (Rev. 21 & 22) is the thousand year millennial kingdom of Revelation 20.In other words, there is still a period of at least 10 centries in which God has time to deal with some of His people who may need further dealing after the church age.If you can see that the sequence is:The church age
The millennial kingdom
The eternal age of the new heaven and new earththen you may see how some of the New Testament's teachings, parables, warnings, etc. fit into this scheme.I will give you now only ONE example - Matthew 18:23-35. This is the teaching of the unforgiving servant. And I will not expound all the verses. I will only make these observations.The teaching of the unforgiving servant should be understood as Jesus dealing with of His servants AFTER the second coming of Christ at the close of the church age: "Then his master called him to him and said to him, Evil slave, all that debt I forgave you, because you begged me." (v.32) Because the master (representing Jesus) calls the servant to Himself, this is best understood as the servant coming before the judgment seat of Christ (2 Cor. 5:10; Rom. 14:10).1.) Because the man is called the servant of the master he must represent a true Christian.2.) Because he is called to the master, this must represent the servant coming before the Lord Jesus after the second coming of Jesus.3.) The servant is punished by the master - "And his master became angry and delivered him to the torturers ...(v.34)4.) The punishment of the servant is not eternal. It has a limit to it and is expected to be terminated - "And his master became angry and delivered him to the torturers until he would repay all that was owed." (v.34)The word "UNTIL" proves that the master indends only to temporarily punish this servant.The question is: At what time AFTER the second coming of Jesus would He have time to temporarily punish one of His servants and still grant such a one eternal life?The answer is during the thousand year millennial kingdom. That age comes AFTER the second coming of Christ but PRECEEDS the eternal age of the new heaven and the new earth.The teaching should not mean that anyone can earn the gift of eternal redemption or anyone can actually pay back Jesus for dying for his sins.The teaching ends with a warning that the Father will do such to His children who do not learn to forgive their fellow servants during the church age: "So also will My heavenly Father do to you if each of you does not forgive his brother from your hearts." (v.35)Now the jist of the teacning is this. For some Christians, who have eternal life, but have held unforgiving grudges against fellow Christians, the danger of a dispensational punishment of a temporary nature may await them. This unpleasantness will be administered to some of the Lord's servants. It will not be forever. It cannot last more than the thousand years. It may last some portion of that thousand years. " ... delivered him to the torturers until he would repay all that was owed.".During that unpleasant discipline during the millennial kingdom that servant is perfected, adjusted, transformed, and ,made ready by making up lessons that he should have learned in the age of grace, the church age.This means that by the time of the end of the millennial kingdom when the eternal age comes, all such of God's children who were disciplined have been perfected by that time.And there are more examples I could show you. Do you have problems with this example of Matthew 18:23-35?Concerning the "sin unto death" John mentions I believe that you made this comment. Maybe we do not know. I hope that I am ministering to you spiritual life and not just knowledge. Even in the teaching John says that one brother should give the sinning brother life. That is the divine spiritual life, the ZOE life of Christ.This touches on the matter of fellowship. The last Adam became a life giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45) We Christians who have the life giving Spirit must minister life to one another. If you have not noticed yet you may eventually see that it is very easy to give out more and more knowledge. It is not easy to impart spiritual life.Paul told the Ephesian elders to feed the sheep. He did not simply say teach the sheep. Our fellowhip should help people touch the Person of Jesus Himself. That gives them life.I think whether the sin unto death is just physical death or eternal perdition is not as important to me as the phrase "give him life". Christ gave us life. In our fellowship we should also give life to others.I may be digressing. Of course. That is precisely why you should not reject the millennial kingdom.Let me explain. The thousand year kingdom BEFORE the eternal age is one of reward. Reward is related to earning. Gift is not related to earning but to receiving freely.Before the enjoyment of the GIFT God set up a preliminary time so that those who cooperate may receive reward positively or discipline negatively. The thousand year kingdom serves as that preliminary time before the eternal age begins.Anyone who does not see that the eternal age does not commence immediately after the second coming of Christ will have difficulty understanding temporary reward and temporary discipline administered to the saved children of God. Let us consider the teaching I have elaborated above Matt. 18:23-35. The essential matter of Christian brothers forgiving one another can be seen in chapter 5: "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall be shown mercy." (Matt. 5:7)Now an atheist who rejects Christ as Lord and Savior will not be saved because he is merciful to others. If his name is not recorded in the book of life it will not matter how merciful he has been. He has rejected Christ's salvation.So Matthew 5:7 should be an exhortation to Christians. Like the unforgiving servant of Matthew 18. Because he was unmerciful the Lord was not merciful to him. Though he was dealt with harshly by the Lord for his unforgiveness, it was not eternal. It was UNTIL a certain lesson was learned.Therefore, believers in Jesus can be shown MERCY during the millennial kingdom before the eternal age begins. This mercy relates not to eternal redemption. It relates to reward or discipline during the thousand year millennial kingdom.If you reject this understanding, I think you are left with this error -" Matthew 5:7 means we are saved eternally by being merciful to others. We may reject the Son of God, regard him only as a martyr. We may even be an atheist. But if we are merciful to others God will be merciful to us and we will receive eternal life."This has to be an error and negates the gospel of John and much of Romans. The kingdom people in Matthew must learn to be strict towards themselves but merciful towards others. If they are merciful towards others when it comes time to reward them in the millennium Christ will be merciful to them. Mercy triumphs over judgment.It they keep offense, forgetting all that they have been forgiven, they must learn that lesson of forgiveness under unpleasant circumstances in the millennium until they are perfected.Therefore, what Christians do not learn during the age of grace, the church age, willingly they will learn under stricter circumstances after the second coming of Christ. Since we all need mercy before the Lord it behooves us to forgive our fellow servants 70 times 7 as Peter was taught (Matt. 18:21,22)Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Hi EMA, I was just wondering if He became a child of God after His baptism or was He God's son before His baptism. So when did He become the Son of God? Unless he was a jew he was not under the Law of Moses.But that presents a huge problem.How and when was the 120 disciples that received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost saved?The Apostles and many others had been baptized by John the Baptist but some had been baptized by the Apostles.The sacrifice of the cross was made from the foundation of the universe. God's plan of salvation has been in effect since before the first man was formed from the dust of the earth. Do you have scripture to support this assertion?I thought He said during His personal ministry: Are you telling me this was not in effect until after His death, burial, and resurrection? Do you have scripture to support this assertion? When did eternal life become an inheritance? Eternal life is a gift of Theos the great Three in One. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.That gift was purchased by the death of God the Son at Calvary, when He said: "it is finished".All those saved prior to Calvary was saved looking to the coming sacrifice and all saved afterwards looking back to the sacrifice.God gave me my eternal life.Mt Gillead Baptist Church baptized me in the Aucilla river by the authority invested in it by Jesus when He said to the Church: The Greek word mathteu translated teach in verse 19 means make disciples.The Greek word didask translated teaching in verse 20 means to hold discourse with others in order to instruct them.The Church Jesus built during His personal ministry was authorized to first:Make disciples of all nations.Once they were disciples they were to be baptized.Once they were members of the Church they were to be taught to observe all things, Christ had commanded them.This is God's order any other order is out of order.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This is Kantian philosophy that has gotten even amongst the mind-thinking of many christians. You are separating Faith and Reason, when in fact God asks us to love him with all of our mind as well as everything else. But by doign this you are giving reason to the humanistic worldview on religion.Logic is logic, it is a God given capacity of humans to think and reason to arrive at the correct conclusions.You would be correct if baptism were seperate from belief, it is not. It is an action of active faith and a requirement of God himself, not me Then dare explain, what happened to the criminal, who did not get baptized, yet was saved by pure grace only because God opened his eyes and he believed.There are many acts who are actions of faith: praise is an example. Yet you do not consider them to be necessary for salvation. If you are consistent, neither should you consider baptism to be any different.

Yes, I just used it at the must basic level. But you are right there are two conditions.

It is always nice to know that someone claiming to speak for Christianity actually read the Christian manual and applied common sense in giving it meaning.Now if we could get past your rule that parables are only allowed in the NT and never in the OT, we may be able to achieve some common ground, however little that may matter to you in the ultimate scheme of things that can be discussed.

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The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman RushdieThis rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

Jaywill and ICANT and others I will work on a response to your latest posts this evening, kinda busy yesterday and today, thanksEAM

. It hit me like a ton of bricks, in a small still voice (no im not hearing voices). I did not extrapolate it from an existing thought, its you he (God) is after here.right when we are assured of our own importnace,hesays thats not it EAM. Jaywill you are Apollus and I am Percilla and Aquilla. You are comparable to Apollous and Iam comparable to them in knowledge. Your ability to communicate the word of God and its parts is comparable to him. You simply needto be shown a more complete or perfect way
Your not familiar with our debates with premillennialists, starting in the middle 1800s to the nearly present are you? In these debates Men like Foe E Wallace jr,dismantle that doctrine. One of the better and more extensive and comprehensive ones is the Neal-Wallace debate on the thousand year reignof Christ. It is my desire that you now read that very lengthy debate to see the flaws of that doctrine. Not a problem Apollous, just a concern. We can only know that these conclusions are valid if the doctrine of P is true to begin with, correct?
I suspected you would refer to passages such as "and that servant which knew his master will and did not do it will be beaten with many srtipes and that servant which did not know the Lord or his will, will be beaten with few stripes"
Concerning the "sin unto death" John mentions I believe that you made this comment. Ofcourse you are [qs]This touches on the matter of fellowship. The last Adam became a life giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45) We Christians who have the life giving Spirit must minister life to one another. If you have not noticed yet you may eventually see that it is very easy to give out more and more knowledge. It is not easy to impart spiritual life.
Paul told the Ephesian elders to feed the sheep. He did not simply say teach the sheep. Our fellowhip should help people touch the Person of Jesus Himself. That gives them life.
I think whether the sin unto death is just physical death or eternal perdition is not as important to me as the phrase "give him life". Christ gave us life. In our fellowship we should also give life to others. [qs] very true My concern iswhy these principles cannot apply here and now It certainly would have helped if he would made it cleaer that this is the age he is refering to in these contexts. I see your points clearly, but I am not sure your are not simply reading intothe passages what you want to see. Again I see what you are saying, lets see if the doctrine is valid to begin with, Premillennialism, that is [qs]23"Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished(AK) to settle accounts with his servants.[h] 24When he began to settle, one was brought to him who owed him(AL) ten thousand(AM) talents.[i] 25(AN) And since he could not pay, his master ordered him(AO) to be sold, with his wife and(AP) children and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26So the servant[j](AQ) fell on his knees, imploring him, 'Have patience with me, and I will pay you everything.' 27And out of pity for him, the master of that servant released him and(AR) forgave him the debt. 28But when that same servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred(AS) denarii,[k] and seizing him, he began to choke him, saying, 'Pay what you owe.' 29So his fellow servant fell down and pleaded with him, 'Have patience with me, and I will pay you.' 30He refused and went and put him in prison until he should pay the debt. 31When his fellow servants saw what had taken place, they were greatly distressed, and they went and reported to their master all that had taken place. 32Then his master summoned him and said to him, 'You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33(AT) And should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?' 34(AU) And in anger his master delivered him to the jailers,[l](AV) until he should pay all his debt. 35(AW) So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother(AX) from your heart."[/qs] This sounds possible, lets see if the doctrine is true first.I see what you are getting atEAM

Before why? What does that have to do with baptism.? At his birth when Mary was overshadowed. What does this have to dowith us? They werent only the Apostles were given the Spirit on that occasion Who were all commisioned by God to do so Did everyone accept it from the foundation of the world, or even when it was presented
John writes:
Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
God's plan of salvation has been in effect since before the first man was formed from the dust of the earth.
EMA writes:
After his death and resurrection he appointed a way for for forgiveness of sins to be applied and that was through Belief and baptism. Yes of course. "Howbeit when he the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all truth"
"And whatsoever you bind on earth", etc etcAnd I will give to you Peter the keys to t he kingdom’ It was true before during and after his resurrection. Im not getting the point of your one line questions, do you have a point to make with them or are going to keep quizing me Again ICANT you are being way to detailed and specifc with matters that are intertwined and interrelated. certainly greek words have meanings, but they do not have to carry the full wieight of an idea in one word all the time. Actually there is not an ORDER here as you suggest as much as there is a process of things to achieve a desired result. the forgiveness of sinsIf you want to be that specific I could equally argue that to teach involves both the process of descipleship and baptism as the crowning result of how to make them fully desciples, because this is exacally what Christ commanded in mark 16:16. i could further argue that the way to make desiciples was to baptize them, because the passage can be read from that perspective as wel, backed by other scriptures. Watch this, "Why do you wait, arise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord" This passage in Acts to Saul is an exact parrallel to Matt 28:19-20, it has all the same elements, even "calling on the name of the Lord", "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit". Do you see the parallels? And Acts 22 seems to be saying exacally what Acts 2:38 is saying and what matt 28 is saying and what mark 16, is saying So if you desire an order there it isActs 22:16EAMEdited by EMA, : No reason given.

I understnd what you are saying my simple friend. however, this is not a discussion on Faith and reason, it is a biblical discussion in a comparative religion thread on what constitutes fellowship. One can discuss what is involved in faith from a bilical perspective, without getting into a discussion about whether faith involves reason. I most certaily believe faith involves reason, but what faith is from a Biblical perspective can and is often differnt from that topic I wll be more than happ to disuss faith and reason at some other point. lets stay with one thing at a time With all due respect it is clear you are not paying attention. If you were you should have seen that I gave detailed discription and explanation to ICANT as to why the thief did not rquuire baptism. Please refer to that post Besides this. you write to jaywill, the above statement. If there are two conditions, what is your further contention????EAM

Sorry, but I didn't quite understand all of this. This I understand a little better. Prisca and Aquilla helped Apollos to understand the Gospel better. Wonderful. I hope you can help me.You can help me, (and perhaps I you also) if we direct our comments to things we wrote here.Other debates between other two people may confuse the matter. And I am concerned about each of us assuming that we are defending positions which we may not actually hold. I am not farmiliar with that particular debate. There may be elements of P which are problematic. But in the example that I used Matthew 18:23-35, we have-1.) A servant of the Lord who has been forgiven.
2.) A servant who is examined by the Lord for his service.
3.) A servant who is diciplined for a temporary time.
4.) A warning that the Father will do the same to the disciples.When could these things occur to the disciples ? When could they appear before the Lord to be examined ? When could discipline be administered to them for a temporary time? When could they be punished until they reached some settlement with the Lord?I believe that the Catholics may have understood this to be Purgatory. I do not believe it refers to any Purgatory, especially one in which indulgences sold by the living helps the dead person shorten the time of his punishment.It is better understood as a warning that the Father might do this after the second coming of Christ. I would refer to that passage to prove that Jesus sees levels of reponsibility according to the amount of light one has received during the church age. It is a fact of life that some see into the will of God deeper than others.What we did with what we received is the key. To whom much was given much will be expected.Many teachers recognize degrees of reward administered to the Lord's servasnts. It is strange that they do not also recognize degrees of punishment. It is preferable that we do take the opportunity in the church age to learn these lessons. I agree.This is not a teaching that one should wait. Of course not. If you can learn to forgive your brother from your heart in the age of grace, by all means learn the lesson now. Whether by discipline or more willingly, the church age is the time to be conformed to the image of Christ. "And the Lord is the Spirit ... And we all with unveiled face, beholding and reflecting like a mirror the glory of the Lord are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory even as from the Lord Spirit." (See 2 Cor. 3:17,18)Today in the age of grace we should grasp the time available to log much time in the Holy Spirit for transformation. That includes transformation in our emotion so that we go from holding grudges to forgving one another in Christ.What I have shared above is of course not an exhortation to postpone learning to forgive. And it is not a teaching that there is no discipline from God to educate us during the church age.The sad fact of the matter is that not all of us avail ourselves of that discipline during the age of grace. Brothers and sisters, unfortunately, do go to the grave with unforgiven offenses. They just could not take the grace to overcome these problems.When will they be dealt with? When will they undergo transformation ? Will simply taking them to a happy place called Heaven solve their problem in the soul ?The age to come will last at least 1,000 years. To some it will be a graduation party. To others it will be Summer School. Summer School is not always too pleasant. You have to make up lessons which you should have learned during the regular school semester.In Summer School you have to graduate anyway. But you graduate late. All graduate. All do not graduate in a timely manner.So, please, my teaching on Matthew 18:23-35 is not an exhortation that for the sake of Premillennialism one should postpone learning lessons of discipleship. In a latter post it might be helpful to bring in confirming passages. Some reinforcement might help.But I want first to correct an impression I may have given. I did not figure these things out on my own. I was helped by others with deeper experience to see these things. But once given the essential keys it was not hard to reseach as a Berean and confirm that these things were reliable from many other angles as well.Now, could we be wrong ? Yes.But I ask you this. Does the teaching tend to cause you to want to draw closer to the Lord today or not? If a teaching encreases a Christian's hunger for Christ, it is safe. If you live according to that understanding and turn out to be wrong, I think you have gained anyway.As it stands I am pretty confident that the matter is true. What is the matter ? It is that Christians can be dealt with by the Lord Jesus not only in the church age but in the age following the church age, the age of the millennial kingdom.The taste, I think, will be different. But He will continue to work Christ into our personalities. He will continue to saturate us with His divine nature. He will continue to transform us into His own image. He has to do this to build the New Jerusalem the climax of His eternal purpose.Paul wanted to present all those whom he helped fullgrown in Christ. He labored that Christ would be formed within the believers. Paul was faithful. Will we be faithful ? Will be be presented mature or will there still be a need for transformation when we meet the Lord ?Even in light of this the merciful shall obtain mercy (Matt. 5:7). Try to direct your analysis to specific things I have written here.Are you unconvinced that the six mentions of thousand years in Revelation 20 speaks of years following the coming of Christ ?Whatever problems you have with premillennism, (and there may be some problems), it should be clear that this period of one thousand years is after Christ has returned.Those beheaded for thier faithfulness to Jesus were resurrected and made to reign with Christ for a thousand years. This is called the first resurrection. And the rest of the dead did not rise until after the thousand years a completed.The passage speaks of reward given to some Christians for their sacrifice of life for Jesus during the whole age of the church before they are resurrected. Unless you are aware of some believers who have been resurrected and made to be kings during the last 2000 years, I think we should understand this as not having happened yet.The entire flow and context of the passage is that it is something following the battle of Armegeddon which also I do not think has happened yet. So at some time future to today Satan is bound for 1,000 years and martyrs of Christ are resurrected to reign with Christ for 1,000 years - "the first resurrection".Though this particular passage does not elaborate on the matter of Matthew 18:23-35, I think it is the appropriate time when such matters should also be occuring. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Hi EMA, So it is understood and agreed to that He was the Son of God before His baptism. Are you sure it was not in the beginning as John said: The entity described in these verses is the one who died on the cross of Calvary.In verse 12 the Greek word exousia translated power should have been translated power of choice. The word even in verse 12 does not exist in the Greek texts. These 120 people were in the upper room when Peter, James and John returned from Jesus assenction.They had a business meeting and elected Matthias to take Judas place. It says they were all with one accord in one place.It says all were filled with the Holy Ghost.It does not say 12 were filled with the Holy Ghost. No and they still haven't and don't because they choose not too. What does the Spirit coming to lead the disciples in all truth have to do with making disciples and baptizing them?That statement does not address your assertion. Glad to see you agree Jesus is the only way.I keep asking short questions because it is the only way I can get a specific answer from you. You normally inject something else into the debate as we go forward with a long disortation. I must be specific.I will stand before Jesus one day and give an account of every word I have ever typed on this web site as well as every word I spoke or wrote elsewhere.Jesus was very specific when He was talking to His disciples. I thought you had agreed earlier that a person had to believe first before they could be saved. How can you teach someone who does not have the Holy Spirit to lead them and guide them in all truth any spiritual lesson?BTW you or I or anyone else can declare, claim or teach anything we desire but that does not mean it is Biblical truth. Saul realized this was a powerful entity as said "who art thou Lord".Jesus then told Saul who He was, "I am Jesus of Nazareth".He believed Jesus.At that moment Saul received eternal life and his spirit was sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.Saul then enquired what "what shall I do, Lord"?Saul was totally comitted to Jesus at this point in his life. Ananias said: "Brother Saul receive thy sight."Why did Ananias call him brother if he was still a Pharisee?He then informed Saul he was a very special one who would be a witness to all men.He then asked what Saul was waiting on.He then stated arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins calling on the name of the Lord.The order is still in effect.Saul meet Jesus the Word. He heard Jesus.
When told who this voice was he accepted Jesus as Lord.
He then committed to doing his will.That made him a disciple, a follower of Jesus.He was then baptized.He then went to school to learn the all things Jesus had commanded. God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."