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Author Topic:   Evolution is most likely a part of intelligent design
kent75
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 59 (355798)
10-11-2006 1:48 AM


Is the whole world missing something, or has someone considered this yet:
Ever thought that Evolution is a part of Intelligent Design?
If we ever shoot probes into outer space with the chemicals / basic organisms to possibly spread life from our planet to other planets (outside our solar system), we better send organisms that can naturally adapt (evolve) to changing conditions... and in the dna carry the blueprints that will direct these organisms to evolve one day into intelligent life, possibly even evolve into humans or a human like species... guess what? we humans back on earth (now eons in the past) just became intelligent designers

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AdminNWR
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 59 (355839)
10-11-2006 9:04 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 3 of 59 (355845)
10-11-2006 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by kent75
10-11-2006 1:48 AM


Not new
The idea that evolution could be part of an intelligent design is shared by many Christians who accept the scientific evidence for evolution.
Those pushing Intelligent Design (with capital letters), are doing so specifically to attack evolution. I expect that the ID movement will be opposed to your idea.

Compassionate conservatism - bringing you a kinder, gentler torture chamber

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 4 of 59 (355862)
10-11-2006 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by nwr
10-11-2006 9:23 AM


Re: Not new
God as Sovereign over Nature should be able to use physical, naturalistic processes. God as the God of the Gaps (GOG) cannot (since, by definition, GOG only works within the gaps in our knowledge). So of course God, Sovereign over Nature, can use evolution as part of Creation. It's GOG who cannot.
All I've seen of ID arguments is that they rely on GOG. Years ago, I even came across an essay by Phillip Johnson in which he explicitly stated that his main problem with evolution is that it leaves God with nothing to do; that, to me, just screams out "GOG". And many "creation science" arguments also speak much more loudly of GOG than it does of God, Sovereign over Nature.
So then, yes, ID and "creation science" do demonstrate that they are opposed to the idea of God as Sovereign over Nature.
Edited by dwise1, : No reason given.

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 611 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 5 of 59 (355872)
10-11-2006 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by kent75
10-11-2006 1:48 AM


That has been considered. However, there is a difference in assuming that as a measure of faith, and insisting that there is scientific evidence for it.

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RickJB
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 6 of 59 (355878)
10-11-2006 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by kent75
10-11-2006 1:48 AM


kent writes:
Ever thought that Evolution is a part of Intelligent Design?
A simple question that causes the heads of ID proponents to explode.
Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.

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jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 7 of 59 (355886)
10-11-2006 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by kent75
10-11-2006 1:48 AM


double post
Edited by jar, : No reason given.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 8 of 59 (355888)
10-11-2006 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by kent75
10-11-2006 1:48 AM


Ever thought that Evolution is a part of Intelligent Design?
Of course. For most Christians and other Theists, what we learn about evolution or cosmology or geology or any other science is simply "How the designer did it."

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4110 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 9 of 59 (355891)
10-11-2006 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by kent75
10-11-2006 1:48 AM


Ever thought that Evolution is a part of Intelligent Design?
yes, but you arn't talking about about the ID movement.
If we ever shoot probes into outer space with the chemicals / basic organisms to possibly spread life from our planet to other planets (outside our solar system), we better send organisms that can naturally adapt (evolve) to changing conditions... and in the dna carry the blueprints that will direct these organisms to evolve one day into intelligent life, possibly even evolve into humans or a human like species... guess what? we humans back on earth (now eons in the past) just became intelligent designers
how would we know this, from the standpoint of the new human beings though?
the idea of god creating life through evolution is known as Thiestic evolution. but the ID movement is incompatible with this, it seeks to undermine the idea that things all come from evolution even started by god.
ID's arguments pretty much say from the get go that evolution is impossible and they base thier "evidence" around this, that evolution can't be the cause of complex things

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GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 10 of 59 (355895)
10-11-2006 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by kent75
10-11-2006 1:48 AM


You might be interested in a new book by Francis Collins the head of the "Human Genome Project", called "The Language of God". It is a well written book for the layman about this very thing.
Here's a quote from his book.
"Evolution as a mechanism, can and must be true. But that says nothing about the nature of its author. For those who believe in God, there are reasons now to be more in awe, not less. "

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 11 of 59 (355898)
10-11-2006 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by kent75
10-11-2006 1:48 AM


Ever thought that Evolution is a part of Intelligent Design?
Well, since Intelligent Design is the proposition that the scientific theory of evolution is insufficient to account for the complexity of living things on Earth, and evolution is the proposition that the scientific theory of evolution is sufficient to account for the complexity of living things on Earth, how could evolution possibly be a part of intelligent design?
Moreover - how could evolution be intelligently designed? Life began to evolve 4 billion years ago; intelligent living things only appeared 200,000 years ago or so. There was no intelligence back then to do the designing.

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kent75
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 59 (355899)
10-11-2006 12:57 PM


they need to give God more credit
In one way the ID'st are right, these are 'complex things' that couldn't have just appeared without the direction of an intelligent designer... what the ID'sts are missing though is how the 'direction' of an intelligent designer works (at least for life as we know it on our planet):
that deep in the blueprints of the dna of the first organisms on earth were instructions created by an intelligent designer for these organisms to *evolve* into complex things...
for example, why would so many 'intelligent' species here on Earth, such as chimps, dolphins, and humans, share similiar instincts, such as social hierarchies, etc?

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 59 (355901)
10-11-2006 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by kent75
10-11-2006 12:57 PM


Re: they need to give God more credit
why would so many 'intelligent' species here on Earth, such as chimps, dolphins, and humans, share similiar instincts, such as social hierarchies, etc?
Because they came from a common ancestor.

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jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 14 of 59 (355902)
10-11-2006 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by kent75
10-11-2006 12:57 PM


Re: they need to give God more credit
In one way the ID'st are right, these are 'complex things' that couldn't have just appeared without the direction of an intelligent designer... what the ID'sts are missing though is how the 'direction' of an intelligent designer works (at least for life as we know it on our planet):
Sorry but so far No One has been able to show any such 'complex things' that cannot be explained.
that deep in the blueprints of the dna of the first organisms on earth were instructions created by an intelligent designer for these organisms to *evolve* into complex things...
Sorry but No One has been able to show any evidence of that.
for example, why would so many 'intelligent' species here on Earth, such as chimps, dolphins, and humans, share similiar instincts, such as social hierarchies, etc?
Sorry but there are many explanations for such things that do not involve a designer. In addition such things can be seen at almost every level of life.
There are no signs of direction in any of the evidence beyond the fact that is you begin with ultimate simplicity the only possible evolution at that point is more complex.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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kent75
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 59 (355907)
10-11-2006 1:24 PM


God vs. Aliens
logic says that there is some kind of intelligence behind the evolution of life on earth. our intelligence, and our technological discoveries are too complex. whether it was God or aliens who shot out probes into space with the basic chemicals / organisms to create life (as proposed in the first thread) evolution probably isn't an accident
the question we should be asking ourselves is: is there an actual Biblical God directing all of this? or is this the part of an original 'design' taking part on numerous planets across the universe?... designed by entities other than a Christian Biblical God?

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