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Member (Idle past 2493 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Playing God with Neanderthals | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Nuggin Member (Idle past 2493 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
Maybe Neaderthals include the daughters of man who the sons of god found fair .... Talk about seeing the inner beauty! Michael: Wow! Gabe, check her out!Gabriel: Who? Michael: Her? Gabriel: The mammoth? Michael: No, next to the mammoth. The short, thick one with the huge nose and no chin. Gabriel: The one with the brow ridges that make her eyes look like pits? Michael: Yeah. Gabriel: And the elongate head? Michael: Yeah. Gabriel: And the thick trunk? Michael: Oh, yeah. Gabriel: Yeah, she IS hot. Say, you wanna go have sex with her? Michael: We're angels, we don't have genitalia. Gabriel: Right. Damn.
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Peter Member (Idle past 1479 days) Posts: 2161 From: Cambridgeshire, UK. Joined: |
I actually laughed out loud with that one
Not sure who the 'sons of god' are who are mentioned in Genesis -- suggestions on a post-card to ... Back to the question though (and I haven't been here regularly for some time): Why is there a problem 'creating' a Neanderthal from recovered DNA? Is it JUST because they are so like us that it would make some people uncomfortable? If the same question would NOT arise when considering 'resurrecting', say, a mammoth then I can only presume that the discomfort factor is high in the list. I don't think you would necessarily find out much about Neaderthal behaviour though, since the newly sprung Neaderthal would have no-one to learn Neanderthalness from.
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Jon Inactive Member |
I don't think you would necessarily find out much about Neaderthal behaviour though, since the newly sprung Neaderthal would have no-one to learn Neanderthalness from. Indeed, I cannot understand why anyone would believe a Neanderthal to be maladaptive by default. What should make us assume a Neanderthal, unlike a modern human, receives all of their mental faculties and abilities at birth? Is it not just as feasible that most of their behavior and mental capabilities are unconsciously learned as they experience the world around them? I think any Neanderthal born today and raised as a human being may very likely be perfectly indistinguishable from the other humans around themfalling both mentally and physically within the acceptable range of variation of the modern form, perhaps only with exception of their immunity or susceptibility to various diseases. Jon Edited by Jon, : ABE: 'perhaps only with exception of their immunity or susceptibility to various diseases' Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple! Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr
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bluescat48 Member (Idle past 4190 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: |
Not sure who the 'sons of god' are who are mentioned in Genesis -- suggestions on a post-card to ... The son of God are the descendants of Seth & the daughters of the sons of man are the descendants of Cain. Which in no way has anything to do with Neanderthals. Edited by bluescat48, : missing line There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
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Blue Jay Member (Idle past 2698 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined: |
Hi, Jon.
Jon writes: Indeed, I cannot understand why anyone would believe a Neanderthal to be maladaptive by default. I always thought the "maladaptive" opinions were more focused on immunity concerns and social stigmatization than on the mental capacity of Neanderthals. As Chimp was arguing upthread, these are just precautionary measures. Assuming the worst possible outcomes is a very effective way to ensure that the moral considerations of a given course of action are properly addressed beforehand. -Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus) Darwin loves you.
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Taq Member Posts: 9973 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7 |
Why is there a problem 'creating' a Neanderthal from recovered DNA? Is it JUST because they are so like us that it would make some people uncomfortable? Yes, they are sentient beings like us. There is a long history within bioethics of extending more rights to sentient species than to those considered to be less sentient. In biomedical research there are different rules for experiments done on fish, mice, dogs, and primates. All four of these groups have different rules with primates receiving the most rights. Also, there are obvious questions as to health risks that we may be exposing a neanderthal to through the process of DNA reconstruction. Many of the cloned animals we have produced suffer from health problems related to the procedure.
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Jon Inactive Member |
I always thought the "maladaptive" opinions were more focused on immunity concerns and social stigmatization than on the mental capacity of Neanderthals. I don't know why a Neanderthal raised as a human being would be socially stigmatized. Jon Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple! Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr
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Blue Jay Member (Idle past 2698 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined: |
Hi, Jon.
Jon writes: I don't know why a Neanderthal raised as a human being would be socially stigmatized. I can think of plenty of reasons:
Again, you have to assume the worst in order to ensure that the moral considerations of the situation are adequately covered. -Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus) Darwin loves you.
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Jon Inactive Member |
I can think of plenty of reasons:
Indeed! My point was moreso directed at a situation in which the identity of the Neanderthal person is not published. The publicity of the whole thing, however, could certainly create developmental and adaptive problems for anyone, Neanderthal or notjust look at all those former 'child stars'. Anyway, if we decide to treat the poor boy like a monkey in a zoo, then we aren't really attempting to raise him as a human being, and I'd say my point wouldn't be overly relevant anymore. In that case, though, I'd say treating a human being like a science experiment would be much more immoral than simply causing the critter to exist in the first place. Creating a human who you believe may be maladaptive or developmentally slow by default is hardly as cruel as creating a human for the simple sake of torturing him endlessly with mind-numbing science experiments. Jon Check out No webpage found at provided URL: Apollo's Temple! Ignorance is temporary; you should be able to overcome it. - nwr
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Peter Member (Idle past 1479 days) Posts: 2161 From: Cambridgeshire, UK. Joined: |
Doesn't Job 2:1 kind of hint that the sons of God are the 'angels' -- since Satan is one of them?
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Peter Member (Idle past 1479 days) Posts: 2161 From: Cambridgeshire, UK. Joined: |
So it's just a matter of human arrogance then.
'If it looks like us, and might think like us we better be nice to it (unless it's actually one of us then we can abuse the hell out of it)'. All based on assumptions of worth where the comparison is 'how much like a human is it?'
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Blue Jay Member (Idle past 2698 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined: |
Hi, Peter.
Peter writes: So it's just a matter of human arrogance then. 'If it looks like us, and might think like us we better be nice to it (unless it's actually one of us then we can abuse the hell out of it)'. All based on assumptions of worth where the comparison is 'how much like a human is it?' How else should we act? Is it reasonable to expect anything else? -Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus) Darwin loves you.
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Peter Member (Idle past 1479 days) Posts: 2161 From: Cambridgeshire, UK. Joined: |
If humans want to learn they need to try to side-step their own arrogance.
I think it is entirely correct to strive for behaviour other than what we see in this world today ... don't you? Perhaps we should just sit back and say 'Well, it's just the way we're made.' and accept all the counter productive 'stuff' ...
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Taq Member Posts: 9973 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7 |
So it's just a matter of human arrogance then. No, it is a matter of human empathy, our ability to put ourselves in someone else's shoes. If a species is not like us we lack empathy for those creatures. As a rule, humans feel much more empathy for a mouse killed in a trap than a roach squished under their heel.
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Peter Member (Idle past 1479 days) Posts: 2161 From: Cambridgeshire, UK. Joined: |
Isn't measuring worth by comparison to one's own species 'arrogant'?
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