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Author Topic:   Straightforward, hard-to-answer-questions about the Bible/Christianity
Peg
Member (Idle past 4955 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 179 of 477 (550252)
03-13-2010 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by Phage0070
03-12-2010 10:33 PM


Phage0070 writes:
So, what does everyone think? Can any of the 5 elements above be dropped and still remain the Christian faith?
YEs they can.
God is indeed omnipotent, and he is omniscient in the sense that nothing can be hidden from him. But is he really omnipresent? Is God everywhere, or is he a person with a specific dwelling place?
The bible says that he has his own dwelling place. Its not even in the physical universe...it is outside of the physical universe... so he is most certainly not omnipresent.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Phage0070, posted 03-12-2010 10:33 PM Phage0070 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by Phage0070, posted 03-13-2010 8:24 PM Peg has not replied
 Message 181 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-15-2010 2:03 AM Peg has replied
 Message 183 by Huntard, posted 03-15-2010 5:15 AM Peg has not replied

Peg
Member (Idle past 4955 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 207 of 477 (558517)
05-01-2010 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by Dr Adequate
03-15-2010 2:03 AM


Re: Omnipresence
DrAdequate writes:
Do I not fill the heavens and the earth? declares the Lord. --- Jeremiah 23:24
Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend to heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there. If I take the wings of the dawn, If I dwell in the remotest part of the sea, Even there Your hand will alead me, And Your right hand will lay hold of me. --- Psalm 139:7-10
these verses may appear to be saying that God himself is everywhere, but notice in Psalm 139:7 the context is determined by the word 'spirit'
its Gods 'holy spirit' that he can send anywhere at any time, but not God himself. Also in Vs 8 its talking about 'sheol' the common grave of mankind. A place where no one in conscious, so really the psalmist is saying that no matter where WE may be, God will know about it.
Genesis 1:2 backs that up the point about the spirit when it says that "Gods holy spirit was going to and fro over the surface of the waters" in the creation.
And if you look at Psalm 113:6, it shows that he does not actually reside in the physical heavenly sky, but looks down onto it from another place. This other place is not in the physical world but in the spiritual world...they are different dimentions.
"He is condescending to look on heaven and earth"
And finally the verse in Jeremiah actually begins with:
Jeremiah 23:24 writes:
Or can any man be concealed in places of concealment and I myself not see him? is the utterance of Jehovah.
So its really showing that we ourselves, whereever we may be, God can see us. Its not saying that he physcially exists in every place.
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-15-2010 2:03 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 208 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-02-2010 4:35 AM Peg has not replied

Peg
Member (Idle past 4955 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 364 of 477 (562573)
05-30-2010 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 363 by Theodoric
05-29-2010 10:27 AM


Re: Why & how did Jesus have to die for our sins?
Theodoric writes:
But it is ok to enslave people that are not this god's people. Correct?
So it is ok to enslave non-christians(according to your definition of christianity).
the form of slavery that was practiced by the isrealites was completely different to the abusive forms of slavery practiced by other nations.
The law for the isrealites was that you could NOT kidnap a person and sell them as a slave the way the nations did....if you did you would be put to death.
Exodus 21:16 And one who kidnaps a man and who actually sells him or in whose hand he has been found is to be put to death without fail"
Slaves were to be paid compensation by being set free if their owner injured them.
Ex 21:26-27 "And in case a man should strike the eye of his slave man or the eye of his slave girl and he really ruins it, he is to send him away as one set free in compensation for his eye. 27And if it should be the tooth of his slave man or the tooth of his slave girl that he knocks out, he is to send him away as one set free in compensation for his tooth.
And a blanket rule was that slaves were to be set free after 6 years of service.
Deut 15:12-14In case there should be sold to you your brother, a Hebrew or a Hebrewess, and he has served you six years, then in the seventh year you should send him out from you as one set free. 13...you must not send him out empty-handed. 14You should surely equip him with something from your flock and your threshing floor and your oil and winepress.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by Theodoric, posted 05-29-2010 10:27 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 365 by Theodoric, posted 05-30-2010 8:03 PM Peg has replied

Peg
Member (Idle past 4955 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 366 of 477 (562575)
05-30-2010 8:36 PM
Reply to: Message 365 by Theodoric
05-30-2010 8:03 PM


Re: Why & how did Jesus have to die for our sins?
The isrealites were only 'enlightened' because God gave them laws and standards. Before that they were like any other nation...they DID sell their own family members into slavery (see story of Joseph) so they certainly were not enlightened on their own....but the point is that God did not approve of slavery and so placed very strong conditions on how it was to be practiced among the isrealites. They didnt always follow the rules though and when they didnt God displayed his distaste for their actions by allowing other nations to invade them and take them into slavery themselves.
Theodoric writes:
You really can't use that book, what's it called? or yeah the bible, because it says nothing about other contemporary slave owning societies does it.
The Syrians would kidnap people to sell them as slaves.
2Kings 5:2 "And the Syrians, for their part, had gone out as marauder bands, and they got to take captive from the land of Israel a little girl
The nations of Tyre and Sydon would kidnap and sell people and they did this to the jews.
Joel 3:4-6 , "O Tyre and Si′don and all YOU regions of Phi‧lis′ti‧a...6and the sons of Judah and the sons of Jerusalem YOU have sold to the sons of the Greeks, for the purpose of removing them far from their own territory
The egyptions put the isrealites to forced labor
Ex 1:13Consequently the Egyptians made the sons of Israel slave under tyranny. 14And they kept making their life bitter with hard slavery at clay mortar and bricks and with every form of slavery in the field, yes, every form of slavery of theirs in which they used them as slaves under tyranny

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