Straightforward, hard-to-answer-questions about the Bible/Christianity

When you ask this, do you mean that being perfect Adam should not have had the ability/or desire to sin? Well, did Adam have the same kind of perfection as God? The God of the Bible is perfect in a completely different sense than Adam was before he sinned. God is perfect in that He cannot sin. God is perfect in that He is omniscient (just to name a few perfections/attributes of His). The Bible implies Adam was created a perfect man yet he sinned. What do you infer? That Adam's "perfectness" cannot be compared to God's "perfectness". In other words, Adam while being a perfect human i.e created in God's image and never having sinned before, still had the choice to sin; freewill to make a choice. In that sense yes, Adam was IMperfect if you define "perfectness" as God's own perfectness. (which in that case even Mother Teresa is IMperfect) No man can ever be perfect like God even when he is created in God's image. God is in a completely different league all by Himself! That's why the Bible says "There is no one like Him" 1 Samuel 2:2
"There is no one holy like the LORD; there is no one besides you..."
The point of the verse is that there is no one else in the category of God, the God of the Bible is the only God! Makes no sense to compare Adam's perfection to God's. Now, when you think of it this way, yes (humanly) perfect Adam was enticed by the devil's words (through eve's report of course), carried away by his desire to be something God forbade him to be, and willfully made a wrong choice disobey God and obey God's enemy. Did Adam know that "the serpent" was God's enemy? I don't know. The Bible doesn't tell us. Could Adam have known? Sure, Adam could have inferred that the serpent was God's enemy by his words. Who else but an enemy would ask Adam to do exactly the opposite of what God asked him to do? God gave Adam the ability to reason and think. And I personally believe that both Adam and his wife understood who Satan was before they bit into that apple.

Hi. Pleased to meet you. 2 Samuel 22:30-32 (New International Version)30 With your help I can advance against a troop [a] ;
with my God I can scale a wall.31 "As for God, his way is perfect;
the word of the LORD is flawless.
He is a shield
for all who take refuge in him.32 For who is God besides the LORD ?
And who is the Rock except our God?2 Sam 22 is actually a song David sings after he defeats his enemies (King Saul) in war. According to the Bible, David was a extremely powerful and skilled warrior. He killed a giant with a stone when David was only 17. Goliath had been learning war since his youth whereas David was only a youth. David kills Goliath with just one. single. stone. THATS some skill. Tell me, why is David giving glory to God when he actually is such a tremendous warrior. He's the one who fought the battle. Yet he says "with your help, I advanced". David is putting himself below God, so to speak. I did the same thing. I put human perfection below God's perfection. Just as David puts his skills below God's skills.What good is a deity if he is comparable to his creation? If his creation can identify with him? I mean, one has to be lesser than the other. if not, both are God, or both are human. If I make no distinction between human perfectness and God perfectness, then there is no God or human, both are either human or God. Now, lets put God completely aside. Lets compare you and me. Both of us are human. Talk about a common definition of perfection for Hyro and Dr. Sing, I have no problem. But you have to change definitions when you talking two completely discrete, distinct leagues. False. Pathetic syntax. What do you mean by God "created" sin? What did he have in mind when He did it? He had His glory and fellowship in mind when He did Adam. He may have had beauty and diversity in mind when He did parrots, power when He did lions, serenity when He did swans (well, for the most part swans are quiet, I heard they can get nasty if you irk them ).You see, God never forced lucifer or Adam to sin. He doesn't make you sin. You sin. Period. Now, before He created the universe (before there was time as we know it), did He know that Adam would sin? You bet He did. Did His knowledge stop Him from creating the universe? No. God created the universe primarily for His satisfaction. If one of His creatures spoils it, who's to blame? The Creature, right? If the creation had no freewill, had no choice...and was forced to sin, then you can say sin was created by God. But both lucifer and Adam had freewill.You organized a party and invited a bunch of kids. You bring all the fun things in the world for them to enjoy. You're having a blast as well. You invited kid X to the party. You know he's a notorious kid. Yet you invited him because you like him. While other kids are playing, he takes a knife and cuts his hand even after you warned the kids not to do so. Man, I hate you!!! You should never have organized the party in the first place! YOU are the cause for the kid's bleeding hand. You're evil. Your party is evil. You're a sham, a rouse, the party was a premeditated evil set-up for destruction. Makes sense? No. Does what you said about God creating sin make sense? You tell me. I said that Adam could have known that satan was God's enemy. As clear as that.Now, one could raise the question "well, how could poor Adam and Eve have possibly known whom to trust between God and satan?"Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the groundeverything that has the breath of life in itI give every green plant for food." And it was so.God makes man. God makes him master over the rest of creation. God blesses man. God fellowships with man. Man is living in utopia!--thanks to God. And now man is approached by some new guy who says rubbish...tell me, is it really that hard for man to know whom to trust? I don't think so. The problem with Adam and Eve was that they were greedy, greedy for something beyond what they have. Greedy to be like God. Time and again and like typical atheists you keep saying that God is the author of sin and man had no choice except to comply to God's "forcing him to sin". You know, the more you guys say this, the more you distance yourself from the answer to your very question. And if you want to ask me a question and then withdraw mentally, how is my answer going to satisfy you?Keep your claims to yourself, or go write a paper, send it for peer review, publish it, get a phD, make merry, and get on with life- or if your a evolutionist--get on with your mutations, get selected naturally, evolve...junk. Whats your point? Are you asking me what the Bible says about who introduced sin into this world or telling me that God introduced it? Seems to me you're doing the latter. Well, I never asked you in the first place. Edited by Dr. Sing, : removed somethings because I wish I said them differently

Human perfection is total purity. Purity of mind, actions, words. The result of purity is benevolence. Any hint of impurity will render a human imperfect.Freewill cannot be pure or impure (only desires can). Freewill is simply an innate God-given ability. I have the ability to run. My running cannot be qualified as pure or impure. Only my innate abstract "qualities" can. like my thoughts, intentions, desires. Adam could have chosen to have pure desires. But he chose to entertain a impure desire made known to him by satan, namely: i want to be like god. So here in my mind I see three tiers:desiresFreewillactionsDesires govern freewill, freewill directs actions. Satan offers Adam a enticing experience, all Adam needs to do is obey satan. The desire to sin never originated in Adam's heart. In that sense Adam was perfect human, he had a pure heart. Once Adam was exposed to a evil desire, he directed his actions to fulfill it through his freewill. Adam was at a two road fork when satan (through eve) finished speaking. He chose the wrong road. What Adam messed up was not HIS desires, but his FREEWILL. Therefore, his actions. Isaiah 45 (New International Version)Isaiah 451 "This is what the LORD says to his anointed,
to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of
to subdue nations before him
and to strip kings of their armor,
to open doors before him
so that gates will not be shut:2 I will go before you
and will level the mountains [a] ;
I will break down gates of bronze
and cut through bars of iron.3 I will give you the treasures of darkness,
riches stored in secret places,
so that you may know that I am the LORD,
the God of Israel, who summons you by name.4 For the sake of Jacob my servant,
of Israel my chosen,
I summon you by name
and bestow on you a title of honor,
though you do not acknowledge me.5 I am the LORD, and there is no other;
apart from me there is no God.
I will strengthen you,
though you have not acknowledged me,6 so that from the rising of the sun
to the place of its setting
men may know there is none besides me.
I am the LORD, and there is no other.7 I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the LORD, do all these things.8 "You heavens above, rain down righteousness;
let the clouds shower it down.
Let the earth open wide,
let salvation spring up,
let righteousness grow with it;
I, the LORD, have created it.9 "Woe to him who quarrels with his Maker,
to him who is but a potsherd among the potsherds on the ground.
Does the clay say to the potter,
'What are you making?'
Does your work say,
'He has no hands'?10 Woe to him who says to his father,
'What have you begotten?'
or to his mother,
'What have you brought to birth?'11 "This is what the LORD says
the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker:
Concerning things to come,
do you question me about my children,
or give me orders about the work of my hands?12 It is I who made the earth
and created mankind upon it.
My own hands stretched out the heavens;
I marshaled their starry hosts.Please don't misconstrue the verse one more time. I'll not give you another chance to. God's point in the chapter is that He will make Cyrus a great man, basically give him all he wants, and everything that a king could possibly dream of. The point is: God is throwing all the "blessings" at Cyrus's face. Cyrus isn't "earning" anything from God. People will look at Cyrus and think what a prosperous, victorious king! But those who know Jehovah God will know that all that Cyrus ever had came from God's hand. That's the point of the chapter.Actually, here the word for evil is better understood as "disaster'. Things like tsunamis and earthquakes. Yeah, of course, God creates them. But He doesn't create sin. Lucifer was God's highest angel. He sinned. God could have destroyed lucifer then. and there. Why did God not do that? I do not know. I am studying the bible and am very little equipped with understanding. Hopefully, one day you will ask me the same question and I will give you a Biblical answer. Till then, suffice to say that God does what he wants but what He wants never hurts others. hmm. did you want to live in a world where satan's entry was restricted? well, go find another galaxy......I guess.See, my intention is not to escape the discussion. I absolutely get turned off, turned off, turned offfffffff, tuuuuuuuurrrrrrnnnned off, when people think the forbidden tree and satan should not have been allowed into God's own garden. Man! it was a tree! IF not in a garden, where else should it have been??????? If anything, man is unfit to live in open gardens. Satan.....remember what I said about the devil.....before he fell, he was the most powerful angel! Angels are powerful, to say the least. Once he fell, fine he became God's enemy but did he lose his power? No!! Of course satan roamed places other than the garden of eden, maybe he went to the gates of heaven once in a while to see what was going on. Whats your problem?? what are you?Whats the heart of the matter? I want to address it. You seem to be bothered by many things here. What one thing should I address? Edited by Dr. Sing, : No reason given.

Thank you for you advice. I've noticed a air of hatred towards supernaturalism on these forums. Edited by Dr. Sing, : No reason given.

Stupid analogy.Do you know how long it was after creation that Adam sinned?
Do you know how much of God Adam knew before he sinned?
Do you know what all God did for Adam and Eve to show His love for them in this time period from creation to fall?
God did not leave Adam alone in the garden. God does not leave places.If you had a strong relationship with the kid and the kid was assured of your love for him, then the kid will heed to you and not your enemy. Are you suggesting that God created Adam at 10 am on monday, 11 a.m adam sinned, 1 p.m adam got kicked out? What the crap! Adam knew enough about God's goodness to make the right choice. Here's proof:Gen 1: 28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the groundeverything that has the breath of life in itI give every green plant for food." And it was so.

Hmm, so you hate the non-existent, right? Do you hate ignorance?

On what basis do you hate something you've never seen? Have you ever seen your hatred? Touched it? Well, I think your hatred is non-existent as well. Therefore, you hate your hatred of non-existent things. No wonder evolutionists are what they are.That video is absolute dung. That is NOT Christianity, NOT the teaching of the Bible, NOT authentic preaching, NOT worthy to be seen. Prosperity gospel is pseudo gospel. Jesus doesn't promise you $ 47000 if you trust in Him. He says the world will HATE you if you trust in me. Which is precisely what I get on these forums. I tell you, God will punish these false christians so much for demeaning His Gospel that smoke from hell will choke angels sitting in heaven watching them burn!! Idiotic video, wasted my precious time.SO, are videos of this kind where your knowledge of Christianity comes from? Edited by Dr. Sing, : No reason given.

Senseless statement.That's easy to answer. God's goodness=God's benevolence. Does a infant know its mother's goodness toward it? Yes. Does the same infant know the difference between murder and charity? No. Edited by Dr. Sing, : clarified something

Do you mean it is irrelevant? Or do you not understand what I'm talking about.Among the copious reasons I loathe having a conversation with you , Adequate, is that you come across as pathetically arrogant. Your arrogance just surrounds you posts like some pungent odor that is SO repugnant that I wish I never came across a post from you. You know its like ughghh, NO! not this idiot again! Ahhhhhh!!! Read what I said to Taz Perfect children can.Before you ask me to define perfect, read one of the above posts of mine, I already did it.

Nahh. Take it as an honest opinion.You think christians are a bunch of doormats that atheists can step on, don't you? EXACTLY MY POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You made my day, adequate, you made it. A God-hater for the first time blames Adam for Adam's mistake and not God. Ahhhh......you said it. Woah! Whats with tonight? Is something wrong with the milky way galaxy?I said perfect children "can", not "invariably do". Edited by AdminPD, : Off Topic

what do you mean by alleviate the message? Uhhhhhh....no He creates disaster.The book of Isaiah is God's message to Israel conveyed to Israel by the Prophet Isaiah. Its all about God and Israel. the People of Israel were the most special people to God. He utterly destroyed Egypt to give them their freedom. Remember the 10 plagues? THATS the kind of evil God is referring to here. So, God is reminding them that what disaster they saw of all their enemies was done by God Himself for Israel. Israel has left God for man-made idols. And He's urging them to remember all that He did for them and return to Him because He loves them. This is an interesting question. Before time, God knew that adam would sin. During time, adam sinned. God did not prohibit adam from sinning even though God could have. This is what we mean by God permitting sin to enter the world. It shows you that God respects freewill. Even if one's man's freewill means the death of billions, freewill once given cannot be withdrawn. Therefore, God permits the entry of sin into the word. Before time, He devised a plan for man to excape form the consequences of sin. During time, He sends Jesus to redeem sinful men.Its not that adam sinned and made God helpless and shocked. God allowed adam to exercise freewill. God permits the entry of sin into the world. You mean, why did God create Lucifer? Simple, to be angel who serves God and fellowships with God.What a more applicable question really is, "why did lucifer sin?" Yes. The Tree of knowledge of good and evil was meant to be discovered.But that doesn't imply that eating its fruit (which God forbids) automatically followsOnce the tree was seen by adam, two things could have happened: One, adam eating fruit. Two, adam, not eating fruit.I say God's desire was that Adam resist the temptation and follow path two. But adam failed God.

Oh,oh are you switching to sane now, you bilingual genius? Since you speak loony so consistently (though unaware of it apparently), I was replying loony too. Sorry. Yeah, lets switch modes. I'm all for it. Edited by Dr. Sing, : No reason given.Edited by AdminPD, : Off Topic

Isaiah 14 (New International Version)Isaiah 141 The LORD will have compassion on Jacob;
once again he will choose Israel
and will settle them in their own land.
Aliens will join them
and unite with the house of Jacob.2 Nations will take them
and bring them to their own place.
And the house of Israel will possess the nations
as menservants and maidservants in the LORD's land.
They will make captives of their captors
and rule over their oppressors.3 On the day the LORD gives you relief from suffering and turmoil and cruel bondage, 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:
How the oppressor has come to an end!
How his fury [a] has ended!5 The LORD has broken the rod of the wicked,
the scepter of the rulers,6 which in anger struck down peoples
with unceasing blows,
and in fury subdued nations
with relentless aggression.7 All the lands are at rest and at peace;
they break into singing.8 Even the pine trees and the cedars of Lebanon
exult over you and say,
"Now that you have been laid low,
no woodsman comes to cut us down."9 The grave [b] below is all astir
to meet you at your coming;
it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you
all those who were leaders in the world;
it makes them rise from their thrones
all those who were kings over the nations.10 They will all respond,
they will say to you,
"You also have become weak, as we are;
you have become like us."11 All your pomp has been brought down to the grave,
along with the noise of your harps;
maggots are spread out beneath you
and worms cover you.12 How you have fallen from heaven,
O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!13 You said in your heart,
"I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. [c]14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High."15 But you are brought down to the grave,
to the depths of the pit.16 Those who see you stare at you,
they ponder your fate:
"Is this the man who shook the earth
and made kingdoms tremble,This chapter is God talking about the King of Babylon, who oppressed Israel. Verses 12-14 speak of "ascending to heaven", "set my throne of high", "ascend above the heights of the clouds", "make myself like the Most High". It does not make sense that a physical, earthly kind would have such desires. But it make sense that since Babylon was Israel's enemy, Satan would be for them and God is directly addressing satan in this chapter.

No webpage found at provided URL: http://biblelight.net/false-prophets.htm

All I did was put the verse which you pulled out of context back into context and brought perspective to the discussion. I am a Calvinist actually. I believe in pre-destination. And I believe that God was being perfectly just in allowing a human to work against Him in fulfilling God's plan. (I know this may sound painful to you) No matter how many illustrations you give, they won't convey a thing.What do you mean by God gives sinful desires? Whats your proof for that claim? When the Bible clearly says that God does not tempt people, how can you?James 1:12-14 (New International Version)12Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.13When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.This passage looks like it was tailor-made for Adam. Follow the logic. Satan tempts Adam (through eve), Adam chooses to disobey God, Adam is dragged away and enticed! Adam sins. SatanWho told you this?You seem to think in a self-contradictory manner. You agree that God created the tree, that God "forbade its use", and yet now you say "God created the tree "for use" If God forbade its use then obviously God does not want to its fruit to be eaten! Right? Who knows what purpose God had in creating the tree? Maybe it had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with humans? Who knows what would have happened if Adam resisted the temptation?? Maybe God would have removed the tree form the garden...and Adam would never have to worry again. The tree is not the issue here. Adam is. We take precautions for many things when our parents or elders warn us. We do not need to taste the outcome before taking a precaution in order to make up our mind. Either you make up or mind to take a precaution or you don't. Tasting the outcome or knowing what it entails is most often irrelevant. Especially when God Himself tells you not to do something. Edited by Dr. Sing, : I made a huge blunder. I later thought about that I said and rushed here to correct my mistake. Sorry.