Jesus: Why I believe He was a failure.

Hi hooah Very valid points.Additionally, before Christians can even begin to tackle this apparent conundrum, they should first consider the apparent origin of the virgin birth story: As for Jesus' success-rate at fulfilling messianic prophecy, I have to agree with Brian that it is appalling. Having said that, I don't expect any possible future contender to be met with success either. The things the messiah is meant to accomplish are all hostages to fortune anyway.Edited by Briterican, : Added last bit to address OP directly.

The scriptures themselves are nonsensical. This becomes self-evident when enlightened individuals try to understand them rationally. Any "conclusions" you might come to about them are an enormous waste of energy and do nothing for the species as a whole. What exactly is a "Biblical perspective"? Does it somehow entail that I first accept the Bible as literal truth? If so, I don't have a Biblical perspective.As for a rationale (which is what I think you meant) for considering the death, burial and alleged resurrection as perverse - I myself can't get over the fact that it is all supposed to have been part of some divine plan. If it was a divine plan, then shouldn't all participants, including the crucifiers, be praised for taking part in the torture and ill-treatment? After all, without them none of it could have happened and we'd all be carrying around our sins still, instead of Jesus somehow having magically absorbed them.

Given what we know about Brian, and what we've seen of his understanding through his posts, this is an incredibly baseless accusation. Tell me of a nation on Earth today that hasn't experienced a degree of global dispersion... We are all everywhere now.Do you honestly believe in "prophecy", and if so, how do you sleep at night knowing that "the end is nigh?" If your answer is "because I know I will be raptured" - don't you feel any remorse or sympathy for all of us poor misinformed non-believers (or perhaps believers in another faith) who will burn in eternal hellfire? You could pick virtually any country in Africa, and this statement would be true. Like all prophecy, it is vague enough that any number of scenarios could be described as fulfilling it. The nations of the world that are capable of flexing global influence are gathered for war anyway, at all times, via contingency planning and rapid response forces. Again, vague and not impressive. Gold and silver was replaced by "marks and numbers" a long time ago mate. Are the end times running a little late? Is Yahweh busy rewriting the script? Hmmm... that describes virtually any point in time in the last several hundred years. Vague and ambiguous. Sigh. What about the Ottoman Empire, or Rome? Don't these fit the bill? I'm re-reading your post again now... I still don't find anything in it that passes for factual data.You write as though you are an educated individual. How then can you be so drawn into superstition and mysticism? Wouldn't your intelligence be more wisely used by dispensing with these fantastic notions of messianic prophecies and instead indulging in a hefty dose of reality?

Hi Buzsaw Fair enough. I'm afraid I'm not in a position to argue any position on this as I simply don't have enough information, and I'm finding it hard enough to follow what's being said here as it is. I'm sure Brian doesn't need my help though. Never say never eh - that is in reference to somebody doing this. I'm sorry, however, that I must politely decline the offer to be that somebody As for the details on prophecy, I wasn't intending to put forward strawmen, I just don't think that everything fits as nicely and neatly together like you do. Additionally, and probably more importantly, I frankly don't accept "prophecy" as a real or even potentially possible thing. Prediction is one thing, because predictions can be, and often are, wrong. Prophecy is something else, and it lies outside the realm of rational thinking. And it is comments like this that make me regret my disrespectful tone. I hope you'll appreciate that since it is debate, it can get heated, but you displayed the wisdom of your years (in terms of courtesy) in your polite replies to my inciteful ones.---- now I should get out of here as I am completely off topic and I'm not adding anything to the discussion