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Author Topic:   Does Death Pose Challenge To Abiogenesis
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2310 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 97 of 191 (533325)
10-30-2009 6:14 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Cedre
10-30-2009 5:48 AM


Re: Abiogenesis does not produce zombies
Cedre writes:
I have been giving the evidence from the very beginning of this post. I showed that dead organisms have all the components required for life yet have no life, its like a car with all its parts but refusing to move.
You yourself have admitted that dead things after a certain amount of time do not have all the components for life. Or else, it would be possible for us to revive people who've been dead 2 or even 3 days. You have said this is impossible. This has nothing to do with the "spirit" and everything to do with the fact that dead things don't have the same components as living things.
Abiogenesis claims all we need are parts to be alive, but death defies this claim, as I have shown many times already.
No you haven't. In fact, you have admitted just that. When there is death, decay ensues, and that makes it impossible to revive people. This may not be extensive enough in the first minutes after death, but try it after 3 hours, see if you can revive anyone then.
From this I concluded that parts are not all that is required for life, and I proposed that perhaps a spirit is also needed for life.
You have concluded wrongly, as nothing you have said points to this. It in fact points to the opposite.

I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Cedre, posted 10-30-2009 5:48 AM Cedre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Cedre, posted 10-30-2009 6:24 AM Huntard has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2310 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 101 of 191 (533332)
10-30-2009 6:33 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by Cedre
10-30-2009 6:24 AM


Re: Abiogenesis does not produce zombies
Cedre writes:
Yes I did but before that time arrives they still have all the parts intact.
So, what you're saying is that it is indeed due to the parts not being intact that causes a person not to be revivable, and not the spirit.
Yet the organism is dead showing that even with all the essential parts for life intact an organism can be lifeless thus abiogenesis confronts a problem.
Uhm no. There is something wrong with the body, else it wouldn't be dead. The fact that we can repair a bit within a few minutes of death occuring does not prove a spirit.
I think my conclusion is rational and follows from the evidence.
But it doesn't. For you to be able to draw this conclusion, you'd have to have evidence that it is due to the (as of yet unevidenced) spirit that a body is revived, and not due to the doctors replacing a function that stopped/broke.

I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Cedre, posted 10-30-2009 6:24 AM Cedre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Cedre, posted 10-30-2009 8:52 AM Huntard has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2310 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 105 of 191 (533338)
10-30-2009 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Cedre
10-30-2009 8:52 AM


Re: Abiogenesis does not produce zombies
Cedre writes:
No, dead organisms have intact parts yet are dead, lifeless.
They are dead precisely because something isn't working properly anymore.
My argument is abiogenesis talks about life being solely reliant on parts but dead organisms still have the components required for life yet are not alive.
Because they don't have all the parts needed to be alive, for example, a working brain.
Like suffocated human being or other causes of death where theres no physical injury to the organism every part is intact in the right place yet no life is present.
Yes, because the brain stopped functioning. the fact we can kick start it back up recently soon after it has stopped is not eviidence for s spirit.
Here's a link to possible proof for the spirit.
You know we don't discuss links here. It doesn't contain any evidence anyway. Further it is about the soul, not the spirit. And it says dogs don't have a soul. If you say this is about the spirit, then dogs don't have one, and you said they did.

I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Cedre, posted 10-30-2009 8:52 AM Cedre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Cedre, posted 10-30-2009 9:16 AM Huntard has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2310 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 112 of 191 (533346)
10-30-2009 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Cedre
10-30-2009 9:16 AM


Re: Abiogenesis does not produce zombies
Cedre writes:
I already explained this in one of my previous posts, human beings can survive even with a dead brain and that's what we see in victims of brain death.
A human with a non functioning brain is alive? Evidence please. The fact we can restart it a few minutes after death does not mean there's a spirit there.

I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Cedre, posted 10-30-2009 9:16 AM Cedre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Cedre, posted 10-30-2009 9:34 AM Huntard has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2310 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 115 of 191 (533349)
10-30-2009 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Cedre
10-30-2009 9:28 AM


Re: Abiogenesis does not produce zombies
Cedre writes:
No. What I'm saying is despite the presence of all the necessary parts for life dead organisms like human beings remain dead, despite all the components being there that are needed for life.
And for the second (or third) time, they don't. They lack a functioning brain, for example.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Cedre, posted 10-30-2009 9:28 AM Cedre has not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2310 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 118 of 191 (533352)
10-30-2009 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by Cedre
10-30-2009 9:34 AM


From the very first line of the article:
Wiki writes:
Brain death is a legal definition of death that refers to the irreversible end of all brain activity
So no a person with a non functioning brain, is not alive.

I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Cedre, posted 10-30-2009 9:34 AM Cedre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Cedre, posted 10-30-2009 9:53 AM Huntard has not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2310 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 138 of 191 (533463)
10-31-2009 4:33 AM
Reply to: Message 136 by Cedre
10-31-2009 4:17 AM


Re: Relevant to the Origin of Life
Cedre writes:
Bacteria are part of the animal kingdom are they not.
No they are not. They do not belong to the Animalia or Metazoa.

I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Cedre, posted 10-31-2009 4:17 AM Cedre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Cedre, posted 10-31-2009 4:38 AM Huntard has not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2310 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 143 of 191 (533486)
10-31-2009 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by Cedre
10-31-2009 8:36 AM


Re: MISSING A POINT
Cedre writes:
They were still parts.
Uhm yeah.... That's the same as saying you can create a plane engine with bike parts. "But, they're still parts !"

I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Cedre, posted 10-31-2009 8:36 AM Cedre has not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2310 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 145 of 191 (533488)
10-31-2009 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by Cedre
10-31-2009 8:56 AM


Re: Emergent proerties.....
Cedre writes:
...and to assume that a motionless car has speed is rubbish...
Actually, a car, even if stationary, does have speed.

I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Cedre, posted 10-31-2009 8:56 AM Cedre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by Cedre, posted 10-31-2009 9:00 AM Huntard has not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2310 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(1)
Message 181 of 191 (533847)
11-03-2009 7:27 AM
Reply to: Message 180 by Cedre
11-03-2009 5:40 AM


Re: Emergent proerties.....
Cedre writes:
As for the computer itself it has human makers and it utilises power, you can have a computer but without a source of power its but a collection of non functioning hardware.
In life, this power is provided by something called metabolism. You might have heard of it, and it consists of chemical reactions only.

I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Cedre, posted 11-03-2009 5:40 AM Cedre has not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2310 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 183 of 191 (533870)
11-03-2009 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 182 by EireEngineer
11-03-2009 10:37 AM


Re: Death?
EireEngineer writes:
You do realize that bacteria die fairly easily, and are not immortal? Right?
Yes, he does. He wasn't talking about a force from outside acting upon the bacteria that makes it die, as can be seen from his sentence:
Nosyned writes:
For the first 3 billion years organisms didn't die unless they were killed.
What he meant was that when no such force is exerted, how do we determine when a bacteria "dies".

I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by EireEngineer, posted 11-03-2009 10:37 AM EireEngineer has not replied

  
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