Did God rape Mary?

I don't think that God raped Mary. She did not object when she was told that she'll give birth to Jesus. Call it a rape if she got pregnant without her consent.

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Hi greendesign & welcome I think "told" is the critical word here. She wasn't asked, she was told. I think if you have a situation where someone is TOLD that they will have to bear a child, it implies that there isn't really an option of consent. It implies that Mary knew she had no choice but to accept. It implies that she was led to believe that she ought to feel happy or honoured that she had been chosen. It implies that she lived a servile life. It implies all of these things very strongly. I would hope that if there was a court case today that heard of someone TELLING someone else that they would have their child, the court would at least decide it was a case of intimidation and psychological abuse, if not technically rape.

This argument sounds very petty considering how much of the bible one could really take exception to. Mary certainly considered it an honour to be "raped." In other words, Mary's not pressing any charges (so to speak).

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"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." --John Adams

I think I was making the point that she didn't have the option to press any charges, given the kind of grip religion had over people in those days.

As I said, perhaps with insufficient clarity, in my other response to this thread, there are types of rape other than nonconsensual sex."But wait, Rahvin," you might say, "nonconsensual sex is the very definition of rape."And so it is. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the victim did not consider it an "honor" or even want the intercourse to occur.Statutory rape involved sexual activity with a person who is unable to give informed consent. This applies most especially to children. A 12-year-old, for example, may give verbal consent, but is not developmentally or legally able to give real informed consent.Mary, of course, was an adult female (well...we don't know her age, but as she was married to Joseph, it stands to reason that we should count her as an adult woman in her culture). Under normal circumstances, I think we could all agree that Mary would be mentally and emotionally (as well as legally) able to give informed consent for sexual contact with any adult man.But does that apply with God? TO be honest, I think it starts to skirt the line at the very least. In teh case of a deity, the influence and authoritative difference is so massive that I'm not certain that informed consent is possible, for anyone.Supposedly we're talking about a being who can erase your existence with a mere thought, and who regularly throws those he doesn't like into an eternity of fiery torment. Can you really say "no" to such a being? Do you have a "choice?" Rapists tend to offer a choice between sex or death/beating/etc. If the victim "chooses" the sex, is that informed consent? I don't think so.Further, as I recall Mary was "chosen," and was told "this is going to happen." Even if Mary accepted her fate as an "honor," it didn't sound like she had any choice in the matter. Is a rape no longer rape if your victim decides to just go with it since she can't avoid it anyway? I think the absence of real choice itself may define this as a rape, even if Mary gave some form of consent.

That remains to be seen as we have no way of knowing what kind of grip it had on her. All we know is what is written, and even then it could all be hypothetical anyhow.

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"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." --John Adams

Of course, and I don't believe any of it actually happened.True or false, I don't consider it is a good moral tale that she was TOLD she was to bear the child. That implies she was never going to have a choice, whether she liked it or not.Women are still not considered equal to men in many religions. This tale helps to explain why that is the case.

If the light penetrating the clear crystal
is abusing it, how should we name this act ?Crystal "raped" by the light ???Contemporary world is spoiled by unclear and lustful thinking
which results in such questions ...Her Son will not take offending Virgin Mary lightly.

I'm glad we've determined god and mary to be inanimate objects. (really I, personally, am. However, it doesn't bode too well for you beleivers)

So, you regard my proposition that Mary may have been raped to be an offensive accusation against Mary, the victim, and not the perpetrator!!!I think that just confirms my views on religion's attitude to women.

First I've heard of this, can you point the references out?I know that Roman Catholics believe that Mary's conception was immaculate, she was concieved without sin, but I haven't heard of any immaculate conception being applied to Jesus', so I'd be very interested in where you (or your bro) get this idea from.Edited by Brian, : spelin

I wish I could point to some references, but this is recollection from discussions I had with my brother at least 30 years ago, during or shortly after his college experience. I can ask him if he would still be able to recall any details on the subject (he has been somewhat less academically inclined these last few decades), but I'm not sure if there will be anything to report.Looking again at the phrase you quoted from my post, there's a chance that it may be misleading. Writings from the first few centuries that later became apocryphal (i.e. excluded from the canon) may have had some influence on my brother's thinking at the time (so my reference to "scripture" might be considered inaccurate by some if that was the case). Also, I tend to recall that his position hinged in part on the intrinsic ambiguity of terms used in the original language of the texts when referring to Mary -- that the same word could be used to refer to a "virgin", or simply to "young woman" or "maiden".My apologies for being unable to back this up, but the experience of those discussions was quite real, and my brother was into that stuff pretty seriously.

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autotelic adj. (of an entity or event) having within itself the purpose of its existence or happening.

No probs bud, it just caught my eye. Yes, many Christians mistakenly take Isaiah 7:14 as messianic when it isn't, and don't seem to realise that if he did refer to a virgin (in a sexual sense) then there must have been a virgin birth 700 years before Jesus.