Unintelligent design (recurrent laryngeal nerve)

Why do we have such stupid "programming" restrictions in the articulation of our arms? Did we not itch in that impossible-to-reach spot on our backs, pre-fall? Why are our genitals so exposed to damage? Why do we hurt, damage and even kill ourselves when we fall over? Was the ground softer pre-fall? Why do our bones break, limbs dislocate, etc? Why do we need to eat? Why do we need to breathe?Compared to these, the RLN seems a stroke of genius

Yeah, and how much time would it take to precisely model the atomic vibrational modes of a large rock when I bang it with a hammer? Considerably more. How awesomely and fearfully made are those large rocks

Go easy, lyx2no... slevesque is a lot brighter than most we see here, and at this moment he knows damn well that the game is up. The RLN is the smoking gun that is undeniable evidence of evolution/common ancestry AND reveals design for the nonsense it is. slevesque is desperately trying to prevent his inevitable slide into theistic evolution. He's not going to go quietly

Despite in your interminable diatribe, you have obviously learnt little from this thread and its links. The path of the RLN is 100% consistent with what we understand of evolutionary development from fish-like creatures to modern mammals. It is the path that it has to take given what has been co-opted to produce the modern anatomy. Furthermore, no-one is suggesting that anti-creation means anti-Christian, or anti-God or even just anti-theism. And you can play what-ifs until the cows come home, but you're bringing no evidence to the table. So perhaps a (much) shorter post was in order?Oh, and welcome to EvC

The RLN is not bad or poor design - it is (as the thread title suggests) blatent unintelligent design. Even a poor designer wouldn't design that route for the RLN unless it were blind drunk at the time. There is no need to argue dysteologically when the reason for the route of the RLN is so obvious from the evolutionary standpoint.

Wow, you guys can do this??? And the EMIQ lifts a little again

You do realise that quite a few of us here at EvC are real scientists? In science we have a technical term for those who make claims but refuse to provide evidence or references to back up those claims. We call them "idiots". Welcome to science...

Fascinating. So I assume you are saying that non-RLN cannot provide that tension? Evidence and/or references please...And may I just remind you: in science we have a technical term for those who make claims but refuse to provide evidence or references to back up those claims. We call them "idiots".

Do you mean in the same way that natural selection should have decreased back pain, improved eyesight, removed the need to breath, bestowed telepathy, etc, etc. Natural selection selects what is sufficient, what is good enough - not some idealised wish-list. The RLN is good *enough*. Its route makes complete sense within an evolutionary paradigm - its lack of re-routing makes complete sense within an evolutionary paradigm. Design has no explanation whatsoever. You can't blame this one on The Fall...

As has been said repeatedly - we know why the RLN takes that route. It is not a mystery. We have a perfect explanation. We do not need to look any further. It is smoking gun evidence of evolutionary development. Ball's in your court...

Again, you are treating this as if we do not know why the RLN is routed that way. WE KNOW EXACTLY WHY IT IS ROUTED THAT WAY. And creationists and IDists have no idea why it is routed that way.We do not need to look for some deep hidden function that explains this routing, because WE ALREADY KNOW WHY IT IS ROUTED THAT WAY and it is not function related.This is very simple, although I admit it is obviously troubling...

Yes they have. And it is an incredibly good reason and it fits with everything we know concerning evolutionary development. The reason is that the fourth vagus branch has *always* innervated the sixth gill arch and has *always* looped around the sixth aortic branch. Back in the precursors to fish there was a deep symmetry between the vagus nerve branches and their respective gill arches they innervated.Over the past several hundred million years, evolution has differentiated the gill arches such that the sixth is now the larynx. It is *still* innervated by the fourth vagus branch, the RLN, and the RLN *still* loops around the 6th aortic branch, now known as the ductus arteriosus (a shunt vitally important to the early survival of my youngest son as he was born with TGA.)The circuitous route of the RLN is explained perfectly by evolutionary development. We do not need other reasons or possibilities for we have THE reason. Similarly, we do not go looking for reasons that the Moon orbits the Earth. The question is, why are *YOU* so scared of the explanation given? Why are *YOU* so pressured into ignoring the world-wide collective knowledge of developmental biology? Why are *YOU* so unable to accept the findings of good science.The answer is, of course, your adherence to 4000 year-old shepherds' tales.

So what you're asking is: pretend that gravity does not cause the Moon to orbit the Earth. What else could it be? can you not see just how ridiculous this is? And you are accusing us of poor science?I repeat:The question is, why are *YOU* so scared of the explanation given? Why are *YOU* so pressured into ignoring the world-wide collective knowledge of developmental biology? Why are *YOU* so unable to accept the findings of good science.The answer is, of course, your adherence to 4000 year-old shepherds' tales.

And that is what we call gravity. Given that General Relativity happens to be my area of professional expertise, I tend to know these things... Nope

I repeat:The question is, why are *YOU* so scared of the explanation given? Why are *YOU* so pressured into ignoring the world-wide collective knowledge of developmental biology? Why are *YOU* so unable to accept the findings of good science.The answer is, of course, your adherence to 4000 year-old shepherds' tales.