Who here would you like to sit down and have drink with?

Hey Oni, I am off-topic here, so just a quick hit and run, . . .What killed me most about Obama's pro-war speech a few weeks ago was that he used the Bush Jr. play-book. By speaking in front of military cadets in West Point as enthusiastic visual props, he was guaranteed to have a receptive audience. Pure cowardice, pure Carl Rove, pure Bush jr. (Try making that same speech at a liberal west coast college Obama!)Change you can believe in? Naaah.Also, would love to be a fly on the wall during the Nobel Peace Prize post-decision meeting.drones

Hey Dronester, That's right. In 2002 Bush Jr. gave his speech there too. Obama is following Bush Doctrine 101 - I believe you and I pointed out that he would a while ago.As Obama said: the goal is "to disrupt, dismantle, and defeat al-Qaeda in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and to prevent its capacity to threaten America and our allies in the future." The goal is NOT, as many pro-war supporters kept using as lies to fool the American public, to help Afghanistan and the people in that country - This war is about the US and it's interests.The sad thing is, I (for some reason) think he honestly means well at home; here in the US. But, Obama's domestic agenda will eventually collapse under the pressure of funding the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The cost of this war escalation will be about $100 billion a year, or $2 billion every week, or more than $11 million every hour - from what I've read.How can he take care of the US and our domestic issues with a financial burden like that? And that's only the cost for Afghanistan. With a hidden camera to youtube that bitch.- Oni

Hey Oni, It is just dumbfounding. When considering the recession and inadequate health care and financial bailouts for the rich, how is it Americans aren't gathering pitchforks and torches to protest? I often answer it is because of ignorance and apathy. But it must be a SPECIAL type of Amerikan ignorance and apathy to fully explain this. You probably read on Znet a week or two ago comparing Afghan strategies by Obama, Bush, and the Kremlin (in 1980) and war speeches that could have easily been written by the same author/strategist. Yeeep, change we can believe in. Oh hum.(Where is Keresu? I wonder if he would concede his debate with me now.)d

I believe its manufactured consent. I did, it was awesome. I wish more mainstream media would promoted this kind of stuff. Straggler is still here, I wonder if we're still viewed as conspiratorial? At least I still am. - OniEdited by onifre, : No reason given.

The one thing that bugs me about Chomsky is that he hardly blames society for their part in not questioning policy. Where is the individual responsibility and/or their moral imperatives?(The whole thing kinda reminds me of when Homer Simpson says, "it takes two to lie, . . . one to lie and one to listen")

Of course!!!! The day you two take of your aluminium helmets is the days the Earth stops spinning! Yeah I am getting younger and more naive every day. I think we need to review the Who will be the next world power? thread and start an Obama assessment thread in light of all our comments made back then (about 6 or 7 months ago now).I'll leave it to one of you two to suggest the exact topic. But I am up for having my face shoved in a puddle of my own wet panted naivety. If justified.

According to Smooth Operator, the earth is not spinning. So I question whether our helmet removal will achieve anything. Translation: you like gay sex. I'll try to start a topic soon.- OniEdited by onifre, : No reason given.

Hmm, I thought that was the underlying point of Manufacturing Consent?"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist." Likewise, the greatest trick the media ever pulled was to convince society that they're making their own decisions.Necessary illusions. The result is a apathetic society that is distracted with nonsense. More people vote for American Idol than for the president; this should be so frightening that it should keep us awake at night. Instead, it's a punchline for one of my jokes.- Oni

According to SO you and I are imbecillic deniers of real evidence. So I would keep the helmet on if I were you. But only with my own pants? Does that really count as gay? Oooh I am sooooo sexy. Sniff. Sniff. At least this is moderately less creepy than sniffing young girls bicycle seats. Which I genuinely don't do. Often. Well as long as the RAZD-Straggler rhyme-off doesn't go on as long as the RAZD-Straggler thread-off I will be there!

But who specifically are "the media"?

Mainstream news sources. The one's that promoted Obama in a good way to one half of the US; the other side that promoted Bush in a good way to the other half of the US. The one's that hype things up for ratings and in turn guide public opinon.C'mon, we've been over this Straggler. The media is bias to it's interests. That's not conspiratorial, is it? I thought that was common knowledge.- Oni

The media has bias to it's interests? Of course. But how many people are there with significantly different interests in the media? If your answer is "not enough" then I can only but agree. The interests are too narrow. Too few people do have far too much influence.But I still think that the idea that "the media" has this one, or at most two, sets of long term interests that you seem to imply requires more organisation, co-operation and planning than I think is realistic. It is this I find more conspiratorial than I can sign up to.Essentially we have my "competing dispirate interests" argument resurfacing again I suppose.

I'd like to sit down for a drink with Wounded King and cavediver, and I'd take a very large notepad to make lots of notes.I'd seriously consider trading a limb for the deep knowledge these guys have. Leg anyone?

Yes, of course, you are right. (But, as you have detected, it still continues to stick in my craw)Wishing everyone happy holidays, and sincerely, PEACE on EARTH!

Well I work round the corner from the British museum and pop in there occasionally at lunchtimes.So it wouldn't have to be a big organised thing if ever you were in the vicinity.