ICANT'S position in the creation debate

Yep, you're in esteemed company. Essen was a great experimentalist, but my five year old has a better understanding of theory than Essen ever did. My weakest GR students would have laughed him out of the room.

First ICANT says this: Then ICANT states this: Which sounds an AWFUL lot like a PLAN to me. ICANT follows up with this statement: Incredible.Cheers,
--Caldron68

I coerced ICANT into starting this topic because I was pretty clueless about what was his real creationist/anti-evolution position. In other words, what were his objections to the mainstream scientific perspecive of "the way it happened"?ICANT's message 1 did little to clarify the situation. Thus my (Minnemooseus) message 4, subtitled "What's the time frames, and how about common ancestry", which asked: A few of my messages later, I got what seems to be the best I was going to get ICANT answer - Message 319. It, in its entirety, is as follows: This is ICANT's position statement. To me, things still seem to be rather murky in regards to and relative to the mainstream scientific perspective. He seems to at the same time have no great objections to the science position, yet he seems to not be willing to accept that position. But perhaps my interpretation/evaluation is the muddled thing.Or something like that.For historical perspective, there was a similar attempt at getting a position statement out of Randman. A similarly muddled affair.MEMBERS MAY WISH TO TRY DOING YOUR OWN CONCLUDING STATEMENT/TOPIC SUMMARY. IF SO, PLEASE KEEP IT NICE.AdminnemooseusEdited by Adminnemooseus, : Typo.Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Another typo.Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Couple of grammar tweaks.

Hi All,Summation of ICANT'S position.1. What is the age of the universe?The universe has existed from it's beginning to exist in the beginnings. Genesis 1:1I do not believe it has always existed in the form we see it today.I will leave that up to what the universe reveals to us.2. What is the age of the earth?I believe the earth has existed from it's beginning to exist in the beginnings. Genesis 1:1I do not believe it has always existed in the form we see it today.I will leave that up to what the earth tells us.3. What is the age of the first life on earth?I believe man was the first creature formed and God breathed life into that form and it became a living soul in the beginnings of the heaven and the earth beginning to exist. Genesis 2:7.4. What is the age of Modern humans?I believe modern humans began to exist at least 6,000 years ago and it could have been longer as we only have man's figures to give us a time.5. Do the modern great apes (gorillas, chimps) and modern humans have a common ancestor?I believe the only thing they have in common is a creator that created them out of the same substance.In this thread I asked for the scientific, verifiable, evidence of a common ancestor and none was presented.6. Does time exist as a property of the universe?No, time is a concept of man invented to measure existence/duration.7. Is length, width, and height a property of the universe?No, they are a concept of man invented to measure the size of objects as well as the space between objects.8. How did the universe begin to exist?ICANT'S answer In the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth. Genesis 1:1.The correct scientific answer is, "We don't know".
There are those who hold other views but have presented no evidence to support their view.No thing has ever caused something to begin to exist.The universe exists.Therefore something or someone had to cause the universe to begin to exist.9. How did life begin to exist on earth?ICANT'S answer, God breathed life into a form he had formed from the dust of the ground and that form became a living soul. Genesis 2:7.The correct scientific answer is, "We don't know".Life exists on earth.It is a scientific fact life produces life and is proved by humans 264 times per minute in the world.It is a scientific fact in 150 years of trying to produce life with the best equipment by the best scientist non life has never produced life.Therefore life on earth requires a life form to impart life for us to exist.Anyone can believe anything they desire to believe as we all have free will to do so.The facts are that:There is no scientific verifiable evidence of how the universe began to exist.There is no scientific verifiable evidence of how life on earth began to exist.Therefore anything you believe concerning the universe and life in it is based upon your faith in what you have been told or have read.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

ICANT asked for the scientific evidence against:

quote:

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In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth

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According to science, no point of creation from nothing to something took place, and, the Earth was not created at the BB.That's the evidence ICANT asked for. Period.

quote:

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And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

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According to science man is not formed from dirt, man was not the first species on this planet.That's the evidence ICANT asked for. Period.His thread, this thread, is not about the origin of the universe, the origin of the first single cell organism, or any other OFF-TOPIC discussions that ICANT decide to posit to take away from the focus of this thread. This thread is about presenting the evidence from science.He is being evasive when confronted with this fact. He tries to shift the focus of the discussion away from his OP. He has been dishonest in this thread.He asked for the scientific evidence, that is all. He was shown it, that's the point. He tried to refute the evidence but unfortunately he is not a scientist so he is not qualified to do that.ICANT was shown the evidence that he asked for, period.- Oni

No thing has ever caused something to begin to exist.God exists.Therefore something or someone had to cause God to begin to exist....--Caldron68

I can only assume you've recognized that time is extremely similar to distance and so to preserve your desire for time to be a construct you now make distance a construct as well. And though I think you went in the wrong direction, that your position has evolved lends promise that you do get the occasional glimpse of the contradictions in your position. Given you live to 140 this issue may be resolve to the good. I hope for both.That aside, I don't see where you ever took this thread past my Message 3. Your God created the Universe; you're not going to register any rebuttal to God having made life in any way differing from Gen: 2.7; and If it can't be know 100% you get to make up what ever suits your fancy.Nice Universe if you can get it.

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It's not the man that knows the most that has the most to say.

spam deletionEdited by AdminAsgara, : spam deletion

It is true that from ancient times till today, anything we believe concerning the universe and life in it is based upon our faith in what we have been told or have read. But sometimes what is written or what we are told to belief are wrong. Earlier people believe the earth was flat, the sun revolves around the earth, etc. It is through science (not from the bible) that we learn more about the universe and life on earth.

Hi Aurora,I thought this thread was closed a long time ago.But welcome to EvC. Glad to see you agree we learn from previous information. Which is true of all types of information that has been passed on to us. If science and the Bible are correct all the land mass was in one place at one time as my avatar shows.If you had lived at that time and could travel all the way around the coast line and could travel across it at any point, what would lead you to believe it was anything other than flat?The sun does revolve around the earth. It just takes 200 million years to make the trip. Let me explain: The sun revolves around the earth every 365 1/4 days more or less. The sun also circles the galaxy every 200 million years which would make the sun revolve around the earth one time to accomplish its revolution around the galaxy. That is your opinion.The Bible tells me what caused the universe and earth to begin to exist.Science says "we don't know".The Bible tells me what caused life to begin to exist.Science says "we don't know".Now if you have better scientific information to be considered I would love to be able to read about it.Some scientist are working on those answers.A lot of people and some scientist have concluded that some of the hypothesis of how the universe, earth, and life began to exist are a proven fact and are no longer looking for the answers.Many have accepted by faith what they have been told.That falls under the statement: "But sometimes what is written or what we are told to belief are wrong." (belief should be believe)God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Correct.
Scientists discourage unsubstantiated claims.
Unfortunately, creationists don't.

How does the sun revolve around the earth , when it drags the earth and the rest of solar system with it?

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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

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Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

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Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

Hi ICANT,I'm sorry for not knowing that this thread was closed a long time ago. I thought the moderator would announce the closure in the last post. Anyway thanks for the response. Excuse my knowledge in astronomy but if what you mention is the Solar System's galactic year, moving at 220 km/second and completing one revolution every 225—250 million years, doesn't it include the Earth, then how can we say the sun revolves around the earth. Yes, its my humble opinion that it is through science (not from the bible) that we learn more about the universe and life on earth. It is also my humble opinion that when Science says "we don't know" it is more believable than what the Bible tells us 'what is'. Yes, I admire their faith and wish they keep it to themselves and not try prove the accuracy of the Bible through pseudoscience.

Hi Aurora, Its not closed or you could not have posted to it. I was the one being careless.Now as to how can the sun make one revolution around the earth in its journey.Draw a circle on a piece of paper put the numbers of a clock on it. Then take two objects and place one of them on 12. Take the other and make a complete revolution around the one on 12. Then move the one on 12 to the number 1 and repeat the process and continue doing so for each number until you return to 12.Now if you can you explain to me how you can accomplish this feat without the object that stayed on the numbers making a circle around the object that was orbiting around it I will retract my statement. "The sun does revolve around the earth." I was not refering to the faith of the belivers in the Bible.I was refering in the faith of those who trust in a science that has no answer for how the universe and life began to exist. If you don't know how they began to exist you can not be certain how we got from there to here.We may be brains in a jar that is being controled and fed all our memories and thoughts by and experimenter in a lab experiment that began last week.But I do believe the Bible when properly understood has no problems with science except the how of the begining to exist of the universe and life.The earth is old as is the universe. They were both created in the same light period that ended with the darkness of Genesis 1:2.Life has been on the earth for a very long time.If fact long enough for the material that forms our oil, natural gas, and coal to be produced and covered by miles of material that turned into rock.The Bible is the only source that tells me the how, and why we exist.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Panda, I finally got over the shock of someone agreeing with me that I finally got something right.Thanks.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."