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Author Topic:   Can't ID be tested AT ALL?
Warren
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 304 (244943)
09-19-2005 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Chiroptera
09-18-2005 7:53 PM


Re: How to Measure Complexity
Chiroptera: Unfortunately for your position, there is no evidence that the cell was designed.
Warren: Depends on what you count as evidence for design. Care to tell us what evidence would cause you to merely suspect the cell was designed?
This message has been edited by Warren, 09-19-2005 02:31 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Chiroptera, posted 09-18-2005 7:53 PM Chiroptera has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by RAZD, posted 09-19-2005 11:19 PM Warren has not replied
 Message 45 by RAZD, posted 09-20-2005 8:39 PM Warren has not replied

Warren
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 304 (244960)
09-19-2005 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Chiroptera
09-18-2005 7:53 PM


Re: How to Measure Complexity
Science has no test for ID meaning that there have been no failed attempts to test for ID. If science had a test for ID, it would tell IDers to use it for themselves and witness the negative results. Where is the test for non-design? ID critics seem to think the lack of testability is only a problem for ID. Why? Does science have a test for abiogenesis? Or a test to verify the non-teleological evolution of the flagellum?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Chiroptera, posted 09-18-2005 7:53 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Chiroptera, posted 09-19-2005 5:53 PM Warren has not replied

Warren
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 304 (245288)
09-20-2005 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Annafan
09-20-2005 8:29 AM


Re: How to Measure Complexity
Annafan: The one thing I always find irritating about the ID claim, is that it comes down to the absolute sillyness (not the Official, RAZD meaning ;-) ) that Intelligent Design is the best explanation because it exactly explains why a structure does exactly what it does or has taken on the exact shape that it has.
It was DESIGNED to do exactly what it does or look exactly what it looks like, for what else would it be designed???
But more importantly: what possible USE does this conclusion have? It is pure idiocy.
Warren: I don't know where you are getting this. IDers are interested in exploring whether an explicit teleological approach can carry out a progressive investigation that serves to weaken or strengthen the design inference and whether it can help expand our understanding of biotic reality.
Design-type thinking is already part of science so I fail to see what you are complaining about.
Consider:
“Both history and present Darwinian evolutionary practice have shown us that this kind of design-type thinking is involved in the adaptationist paradigm. We treat organisms - the parts at least -- as if they were manufactured, as if they were designed, and then we try to work out their functions. End-directed thinking - teleological thinking - is appropriate in biology because, and only because, organisms seem as if they were manufactured, as if they had been created by an intelligence and put to work.”
Michael Ruse, Darwin and Design: Does evolution have a purpose?, p. 268 (Harvard, 2003)
This message has been edited by Warren, 09-20-2005 05:40 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Annafan, posted 09-20-2005 8:29 AM Annafan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Parasomnium, posted 09-20-2005 5:50 PM Warren has not replied
 Message 46 by RAZD, posted 09-20-2005 8:58 PM Warren has not replied
 Message 47 by Annafan, posted 09-21-2005 4:40 AM Warren has not replied

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