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Author | Topic: Cdesign proponentist troll recruiting center | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dawn Bertot Member Posts: 3571 Joined: |
thats why he predicted they would find evidence if they would not there would be no evolution, what does ID predict ? How can it be falsified? What assumptions are yet to be proven and can they be left out ? I noticed you didnt deny that he started with a conclusion, something you fellas proclaim is bass ackwards. So if your DADDY started with a conclusion are we justified in doing the same? ID can be falsified, simply by demonstrating that order and law do not eixst, including purpose ID predicts that law and order is recognizable and continues in great detail, in minute detail, in specific detail It also predicts this behavior will continue, if taken outside of the womb and placed in a test tube, for example It predicts that this process will continue even if it is proclaimed to not be design.
What assumptions are yet to be proven and can they be left out ? One would need to forumulate an assumption that these things do not exist for the assumption to have any meaning I wanted to address your question before getting back to the topic in my other responses Dawn Bertot
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Dawn Bertot Member Posts: 3571 Joined: |
One of these things appears to be the scientific method. You have already had several threads to be thoroughly wrong about that topic; this one is about something else. I know its about something else and I just wanted to respond to Frakos inquirySince there is nothing in the scientific method that affects the tenets of ID, your statement makes no sense as usual Dawn Bertot Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.
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Dawn Bertot Member Posts: 3571 Joined: |
The very fact that you call for debates instead of ID scientific research tells us that you don't know how science works. Wrong. We are happy to discuss that very topic in public debate, in fact we insist on it being discussed. The fact that you distinguish debate from ID research demonstrates you know nothing of either
False. The judge was there to protect the Constituion, which he did. Look up the Lemon Test sometime and then tell us what secular uses ID has. what he was defending was a misunderstanding of evidence and how it works, or he simply overlooked it or was not presented it, correctly ID has to do with whether it is evidential or applicable, Im not sure why you think it has to have secular value to be valid Dawn Bertot
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Dawn Bertot Member Posts: 3571 Joined: |
And as it happens, your snide rejoinder completely missed the point. Those students are supposed to provide an essay demonstrating, as part of the standard for the course, that ID has some theological significance. This says entirely nothing about ID/creationism's preconceived conclusions. Which all of us here know about, but that's off-topic. That you would take such an unambiguous discussion about why they are there and what they are supposed to demonstrate as part of the course, and infer that we are talking about ID/creationism's tendency to ignore evidence in favour of preconceived notions, says a lot about what you really see in it. Why does it bother you that ID may have some theological application,in connection with science, in a private school. Are you trying to control thier thoughts as well now Dawn Bertot
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Dawn Bertot Member Posts: 3571 Joined: |
Perhaps we should issue a challenge: “Intelligent Design Supporters Strictly Welcomed -- all you have to do is support your claims with facts and answer all rebuttals.” Perhaps we should start a new thread just for them. Any time you are ready RAZD. Just set out the proposition and if my hands are not tied by admin in omiting what i need to discuss it, you have your challenge met Dawn Bertot
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Nij Member (Idle past 4890 days) Posts: 239 From: New Zealand Joined: |
It doesn't bother me at all that ID has theological aspects.
What does bother me is that instead of discussing those aspects and specifically the students' requirement to present them, you decided to complain about preconceived conclusions supposedly being the basis of evolution. Here's a thought for you: how about you don't project ID/creationism's shortcomings onto real science? If that wasn't enough, yes, it is a valid thing to question why religious apologetics is required in what is supposedly a science class. IDiots: they don't seem able to think.
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Nij Member (Idle past 4890 days) Posts: 239 From: New Zealand Joined: |
Wrong. We are happy to discuss that very topic in public debate, in fact we insist on it being discussed.
You were just told that science research doesn't involve public debate, and this is because public opinion is irrelevant to what counts as valid science, yet you wish to repeat exactly the same claim in which it does.I don't think any more need be said on that. The fact that you distinguish debate from ID research demonstrates you know nothing of either
Actually, no, it indicates that Taq knows the difference between the two.Perhaps in ID Crazyland "research" and "public debate" are synonymous, but out here in reality, they aren't. what he was defending was a misunderstanding of evidence and how it works, or he simply overlooked it or was not presented it, correctly
Hmm, you mean evidence like what was presented to That's a total of 12 judges.Presiding on 5 different cases, all in different courts. Over a period of 3 decades. This was not a simple error of the defense "not presenting it correctly", or of "overlook{ing}" the evidence or of the judge "misunderstanding" it. The fact is, in both law and science, that ID/creationism is religion, not science.Every time I think you couldn't be more wrong, I'm forced to lower my opinion of you yet again. You are entirely incorrect on the issue at hand. ID has to do with whether it is evidential or applicable, Im not sure why you think it has to have secular value to be valid
Because science is by definition secular. You know, all those rules about falsifiability and parsimony and not dealing with the supernatural and stuff?If it isn't of secular value, it obvoiously has no secular aspects, therefore it clearly can't be science. Because you see, no matter how badly your cult might wish to change the definition, science does not concern itself with religion at all. Edited by Nij, : Further phrase.
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Larni Member (Idle past 164 days) Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: |
ID can be falsified, simply by demonstrating that order and law do not eixst, This is such bullshit. You keep saying this but you have yet to demonstrate that ID specifically results from 'order' or 'law'.
Why does it bother you that ID may have some theological application,in connection with science, in a private school. Are you trying to control thier thoughts as well now The point is: ID is dressed up theology. Nothing more, nothing less.
Since there is nothing in the scientific method that affects the tenets of ID, your statement makes no sense as usual Did you mean to write this? The scientific method has no bearing on ID? Finally we agree. Edited by Larni, : No reason given. Edited by Larni, : No reason given. Edited by Larni, : No reason given.
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Taq Member Posts: 9973 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7 |
Wrong. We are happy to discuss that very topic in public debate, in fact we insist on it being discussed. So what ID research are you going to discuss? Can you please reference the peer reviewed papers from scientific journals that we will be discussing?
The fact that you distinguish debate from ID research demonstrates you know nothing of either I know what science is. In science, we do research. So where is the ID research? If there is no research then there is nothing to debate.
what he was defending was a misunderstanding of evidence and how it works, or he simply overlooked it or was not presented it, correctly Then please point us to ID peer reviewed research so we can see how ID is tested and by what evidence.
ID has to do with whether it is evidential or applicable, You really do not understand how evidence works, do you. A theory is not evidential. That is word salad. A theory is TESTABLE. If ID is not a theory then there is nothing to debate.
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Taq Member Posts: 9973 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7 |
ID can be falsified, simply by demonstrating that order and law do not eixst, including purpose Would ID be falsified if it was shown that order and law did not require an intelligent designer and that natural mechanisms were all that was required for order to occur?
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frako Member (Idle past 306 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
I noticed you didnt deny that he started with a conclusion, something you fellas proclaim is bass ackwards. So if your DADDY started with a conclusion are we justified in doing the same? well no our "daddy", went arround the world and collected samples of animals and some fossils too. When he started to examine the stuff he braught home he found that some of the fossil bones of extinct species where related to living species in america, and his notes abbout birds that where simmilar and yet diferent depending on where they where he speculated that one species changes in to a nother. And after a lot more work he proposed natural selection evolution and so one... he did not say out of the blue evolution made us he actualy did some work contraery to the IDists and creationists.
ID can be falsified, simply by demonstrating that order and law do not eixst, including purpose It is a big jump form order to desighn so what you are saying that order hasto come from a divine one and that is the reason that my coin falls on heads 50% of the time and on tails 50% of the time. and a2+b2=c2 tells you that god is responsible purpose??? ok what is our purpose, where did you find out abbout our purpose and what about chaos is that something your god did not yet put to order ???
ID predicts that law and order is recognizable and continues in great detail, in minute detail, in specific detail It also predicts this behavior will continue, if taken outside of the womb and placed in a test tube, for example It predicts that this process will continue even if it is proclaimed to not be design. and this proves desighn how?? why do you need a god to make it so you are saying that it is impossible for nature do do it on its own whitout a fingersnap from god??
One would need to forumulate an assumption that these things do not exist for the assumption to have any meaning I wanted to address your question before getting back to the topic in my other responses i was thinking more abbout the asumption of there being a god would all the stuff you say that prove him still be the same if one left out a divine creator. Well we do not know and trying to prove something whit something you do not know is kinda tough. So on the one hand you have natural laws spawning from nature and you can see that every day, and on the other you have a creator whom you never see. Both explenations explain the current status one asumes there is no invisible undetectible shugar daddy and one assumes there is one. Im going whit the one that says there is no shuggar daddy cause he failed to show up well ever. If he does show up or if he does one of those behind the scens miracles one that science cannot explain well then i might give him a nother thought.
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Dawn Bertot Member Posts: 3571 Joined: |
I'm full aware this is off-topic, but somebody needs to do it... Expalin what IT is that you need to do
It doesn't bother me at all that ID has theological aspects. What does bother me is that instead of discussing those aspects and specifically the students' requirement to present them, you decided to complain about preconceived conclusions supposedly being the basis of evolution. Is this different than you complaining about what some private college does. it seems that even private institutions are not free from you fellas tyranny it seems you are not far removed from Hillary trying to control what people think and thier opinions to make them hate crimes. Sorry jr thats why they are private colleges so they dont have to be controlled by tyrants like yourself and Dawkins
Here's a thought for you: how about you don't project ID/creationism's shortcomings onto real science? heres another thought. Only a tyrant and an arrogant moron would claim to have the only definition of real science, so why dont you stay out of thier buisness Dawn Bertot
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onifre Member (Idle past 2951 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Sorry jr thats why they are private colleges so they dont have to be controlled by tyrants like yourself and Dawkins
Instead they opt for less educated tyrants to tell them what to do? It's a private college for a reason you simple minded fool! - Oni
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Dawn Bertot Member Posts: 3571 Joined: |
Actually, no, it indicates that Taq knows the difference between the two. Perhaps in ID Crazyland "research" and "public debate" are synonymous, but out here in reality, they aren't. well sure when you set up what the rules of science are in your own little world and then proclaim victory, sure you can call this reality if you want Your understanding of science and evidence is limited and ridiculous taq understands very little then, because debate is not opinion and is not restricted to an auditorium, debate is simply a point of view given the amount of evidence presented
Hmm, you mean evidence like what was presented to him them? Funny thing is, the witnesses that creotards presented admitted that ID was of a religious nature and the scientific community demonstrated that it was not science. And guess what? It happened that they used that evidence and made their decision not once, not twice, not thrice, not even just four times, but five times! Then thier admission was INACCURATE and the conclusion that ID is not science was stupidity of the highest order And guess what I noticed you did not present that EVIDENCE here that supposedly demonstrates ID as not science. Hey instead of bragging simpleton, perhaps you could present that "evidence" Dawn Bertot
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Dawn Bertot Member Posts: 3571 Joined: |
Instead they opt for less educated tyrants to tell them what to do? It's a private college for a reason you simple minded fool! You honestly believe they are private because they only want to present a view of ID? hey perhaps you could present the evidence that demonstrates that Id is not science, as of yet ive only established it follows all the same rules of the "scientific method" ive demonstrated its similarities, tell me what it lacks, come ONI you can do better than these other clowns Dawn Bertot
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