Falsification of Biblical Creation

That is right. Not all. It still is a misunderstanding of science to say that science proves/disproves any supernatural event.

One can draw philosophical implications from scientific results. The implications are not scientific but they might be very reasonable.

Does that not lead one to the idea that a divine entity is in fact made up?

But when do we say something along the lines of "..alright the world IS a globe revolving around the sun.." about percieved supernatural events?

Yes, you can. And, people will draw what ever conclusion they want to.For example, they might draw the concluson there is no evidence for god, so therefore there is no god.Or, they might draw that conclusoin there is a god, because there is no evidence there isn't.

Some conclusions are more reasonable than others.

quote:

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Some conclusions are more reasonable than others.

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That is true. However, at times the person drawing the conclusion can be a rather poor judge of how reasonable is his conclusions. (I'm actually thinking of someone in particular here. )

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"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
-- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

When it comes to the concept that the world is a globe orbitings a bigger globe of hot gas, well, we have physical observations for that,and a lot of conclusions based on those observations.For supernatural events, there are no observations that can be tested and measured. If there were, then it would be a natural event.Now, the thing about some people's belief in an all powerful being is that they can claim that the all powerful being made it LOOK like things are older/etc/etc.. but actually made it that way.

No doubt. And I myself do not find such a comment as "evolution is perfect" (indicating performance by a perfect God) to be very reasonable.

Perhaps, this Christians views may cause you to ponder otherwise. try essay VI for startershttp://community.berea.edu/scienceandfaith/essays.asp

You might come to that conclusion, let me clarify, if there is a god, all of our religions are meerly reflections of him/her/it filtered through our perceptions, so in that case they maybe all wrong.since our understanding of god ia limited, you could make up anything about it as you want, its a belief, unless god comes down and says you are wrong
as for beliefs about the world..if you make stuff up that contradicts what we see then well you are fooling yourself

Hi Iano,
I have to say I'm shocked and disappointed by your endorsement of evolution. Somehow you've posted here for a number of months and I had no idea you had such a belief. Is this something new for you?I'm wondering if you have thought it through yourself or simply accepted the kind of information the site you link provides. Can you put what it says into your own words? Can you argue for what it says? Please do so if you can. {abe: What I mean is: can you defend evolution from Genesis, from the word of God?}I mostly skimmed it but I can say for starters that Teilhard and Dobzhansky are NOT Christians. {abe: Or let me put it this way: IF they are Christians it is because they manage to believe the basics of the faith in SPITE of their evolutionism, and in Teilhard's case -- I'm not familiar enough with Dobzhansky -- in spite of his Christian theology in general}.Also, while some Christians may react against evolution emotionally in such terms as refusing to believe humans were descended from apes, that is a straw man caricature of the Christian view that doesn't deserve mention. The reason Christians should object to evolution is that it contradicts the word of God. The way people manage to convince themselves it can be fit into the word of God is by completely changing the meaning of the word of God.This is not the way Christians should operate. If something has to give between science and God, it is science that has to give -- whether we can answer science on its own terms or not. Just because there are DNA similarities between apes and men does NOT prove descent from a common ancestor. In any case, we have to put our trust in the God of the Bible even if we can't answer the scientists.Jesus quoted from Genesis as well as all the other parts of the Bible modern rationalists contest. He ought to be our standard. We KNOW of the reality of the supernatural, and we KNOW that He upholds His word. Let them call us crazy and stupid, you know that's our calling anyway. I hope you will rethink what you are saying here.I believe robinrohan is also right to argue that the sheer brutality of life that is intrinsic to evolution shows its incompatibility with the God of Western tradition, who is the God of the Bible. In fact I heard somebody say something similar on Christian radio this morning and I hope to catch the repeat broadcast later this evening. I don't know who was being interviewed, but if he's worth quoting and referencing I'll be back later with the information.Sorry to be in critical mode, but it did throw me for a loop to find that my favorite "fundie" here believes in evolution so really isn't a fundie.And I'm afraid I also have to throw another wrench into the works: I know you love the Alpha course, and I haven't said anything because I am not up on the particulars, but I had heard that it is a very flawed presentation of the Christian message. This doesn't mean it can't be used by God to save people, of course, but it does mean that it can compromise or weaken the faith of the saved, and may even mislead some in a completely wrong direction, and for this reason it should be seriously thought through. I did look it up this afternoon and found a few warnings that may be worth thinking about: The Alpha Course, by Chris Hand of the Christian Research Network.This message has been edited by Faith, 03-23-2006 10:18 PMabe: Corrected some grammatical errors.This message has been edited by Faith, 03-24-2006 09:27 AM

Thanks for the link iano. Those are some extremely well thought out essays and reflect well the Major Christian understanding and position on Evolution.I have always been amazed by the few Christians that seem to think Christianity requires you to check your brain at the door. It's certainly not an article of faith that Christians should remain ignorant of the world and universe GOD gave us.Again, thanks for posting the link.This message has been edited by jar, 03-23-2006 11:52 PM

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

The standard is Christ and Christ is the subject of the Word from Genesis through Revelation. While what one believes about evolution MAY not affect salvation, it DOES affect what one believes about Jesus Christ -- and that COULD affect salvation ultimately. Far better to take our lumps from the world than diminish His word by an iota, and I believe that an intelligent reading of Genesis shows that it -- His word -- is completely incompatible with evolution.Again, it comes down to choosing Him over what the world says. Being among the "few" in this respect is a good thing.============================================
Mat 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.1Cr 1:20 Where [is] the wise? where [is] the scribe? where [is] the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
1Cr 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
1Cr 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.This message has been edited by Faith, 03-23-2006 11:22 PMThis message has been edited by Faith, 03-24-2006 09:30 AM

Interesting.I don't see iano's post (Message 25) as an endorsement of evolution. Rather, I took it as iano attempting to witness by presenting a statement that he thought might be persuasive to robinrohan. I'm still not certain of iano's position on evolution.