the evolution of clothes?

I am back in this persona now (the problem has been fixed)

We missed you.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

so did I. it was weird trying to get on again and failing to connect. then the withdrawal started, the shakes, the headaches ... it was horrible.

Mexian hairless?
LOL

whiskers are hairs.same for the "hairless" cat. what is meant is "no visible body hair" rather than true hairlessness.

Do you suppose those whiskers afford the protection hair is generally meant to?
Imagine being bred all the way into hairlessness. That has to be a bummer.

beats shaving

"Spotted hyenas can hunt just as well as scavenge. While the large cats can pursue for only a short distance, spotted hyenas can run down prey for up to two miles at speeds over 35 mph." Not FoundThe hyenas are more hairy than leopards, chettahs, and female lions, and more mottled (camoflaged) than many large cats. So, why haven't hyenas specialized through the hair reduction stage according to this long range stalking theory?

You keep making the mistake that there is design, purpose or direction to evolution. Because the mutation that causes it hasn't happened within their population yet.Remember, the mutations are totally random. There is no purpose or direction or design. It does not happen to make something better, more complex, superior. The mutations just happen.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

sorry I don't buy that.we are not talking about a mutation that reduces the total amount of hair on an individual -- humans are hairy, it is just that the hair is finer than most other apes.the degree of {fineness\fullness} of hair in the coats of individuals will be grouped around an average level in any speciesselection pressure that favors finer haired individual will allow them to take a more prominent role within the group, will allow their offspring to spread the characteristic into the general populationcontinued pressure over many generations will result in any species subject to such pressure to become less and less full {fur\hair} endowed.similar pressure on similar species will result in similar (but not identical) reactions.I see no need to bring in purpose or direction into this argumentyou have:{{species A}} ++ {{proposed cause of feature}} == {{result LH}}
{{species B}} ++ {{same cause in effect}} == {{result notLH}}a hypothesis tested and failed?

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

Not sure we are saying anything different. Agreed. But that does not seem to have happened within the hyenas. Only if the potential is there. There have to be finer haired individuals and in addition, the finer hair must actually provide an advantage when it comes to living long enough to reproduce.If

1. the mutation that leads to finer hair is missing,
2. the finer haired individuals do not have a significant advantage when it comes to reproducing,

then you will not see the emergence of finer haired individuals.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

a. variation within the population exists
b. significant advantage claimed for humanssee, I just don't see this as the major ne plus ultra reason for the reduction of hair size in humans.I think it could well have been a contributing factor, but I think when push comes to shove that sexual selection trumps the running in heat model. your (b) is blocked by sexual selection ...... I think the role of sexual selection is underrated in evolution as currently {taught\understood}consider the working definition of species now pretty much accepts that two closely related species are still differentiated if the populations do not choose to interbreed: blocked by sexual selection.consider the green warbler ring species at the northern overlap: males ignore males and females ignore males of the other {species\form}the {running\hunting} model also does not explain why the males are still more heavily hairy than the females if they are the ones doing the {running\hunting} while the females are doing the {walking\gathering} ... of a typical sexist scenario .... sexual selection on the other hand is capable of producing "run-away feedback" features even against individual survival needs (peacock, scissortail, etc, etc) and that several features of humans fit the categories of such "run-away feedback" systems -- bigger than necessary brains, unique in {taxa-family} body ornamentation, stong physical divergence from near relatives with little genetic drift to match ... etcetera, etcetera.sex is what makes us humanenjoy.

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

But I didn't eliminate sexual selection? All that matters is the history, what did happen. It's nice to know the mechanisms but that's after the fact. The steps are that the potential must be present in the population. The we see what happens after the filter, selection.I am not supporting the running in heat model, or the sexual selection model. That's still to be determined. My best guess is that it will turn out to be a multi-stage filter.I think I remember sex. It was good IIRC. Enjoy?

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

No you didn't eliminate sexual selection.all that matters is that stuff happened, and if we don't know what it was then it gets pretty pointless to argue for one specific cause when there could be a number of factors, some from choice, some from chance and some from things being the way they were (free will + random + detereminism) .... without needing to get into the mythos of magical realizations ....

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

No.Because the starting point is different. Humans evolved from apes; Hyenas are dogs. Dogs already have a pretty good heat loss system - panting; apes don't. Apes already have good manipulative skills, allowing them to make nests to keep warm at night; dogs don't. Hyena have good night vision and hunt primarily at night; humans and chimps don't.