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Author Topic:   The race issue
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2725 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 19 of 134 (457251)
02-21-2008 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by IceNorfulk
02-21-2008 6:09 PM


Some people have studied this subject before. Some people have not. For instance:
CTD writes:
I consider it a mistake to think of the human race having been composed of purely static units. Seafaring is as old as history, and there have been plenty of nomads and traders also. Hermit kingdoms like Korea are the exception. And in the old days, war often resulted in enslavement. There was plenty of opportunity for mixing, although the majority of the people may well have stayed put during peacetime.
Over time, familial traits have emerged to give the different peoples their own looks.
The first paragraph here does not lead to the assertion in the second paragraph. Mixing of genes produces homogeneity, or the lack of variation, not the distinct, ethnic looks here asserted.
Of all the world religions, the Bible is the most plausible. If the Bible isn't true, then I'd have to face up to the cold and harsh reality of death. I'm not strong enough for that.
I don't think I'd agree with this. I haven't read much of the Analects or the Ramayana or the Bhagavadgita, but I'm pretty sure there's nothing in there that wouldn't slide right past a casual bible-reader's eye if it was stuck in the middle of Isaiah somewhere.
The pre adamite theories have no leg to stand on whatsoever (because such people would have perished in the flood), so I won't go into them.
This is also assuming that the flood was a Global phenomenon. Genesis 7 does say the flood was over the whole earth, but Luke 2 also says the whole earth was taxed by Caesar Augustus. This did not include Mesoamerica, China, Australia or most of Africa. So, maybe Genesis didn't include these regions, either.
However, by the large, the best information given to us is the genetic markers (as you've mentioned). Stick with those, because they're not really open to much interpretation, whereas every word written in the Bible is.
Keep in mind here, I'm a practicing Christian. I'm also Mormon, and the current genetic studies (done here at BYU by Mormon scientists) utterly and completely refute our stated beliefs that the Native Americans are descendants of a side branch of the Jews. Therefore, all references in our Church history to the Native Americans as "Lamanites" is flawed.
But, there are a preponderance of Book of Mormon scholars who can argue subtle semantics to make the whole thing still 100% perfectly true. That's how open to interpretation the factual details of scripture are.
Good luck to you, and welcome to the forum!

Signed,
Nobody Important (just Bluejay)

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 Message 16 by IceNorfulk, posted 02-21-2008 6:09 PM IceNorfulk has not replied

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2725 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 28 of 134 (462152)
03-31-2008 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Marcosll
03-31-2008 12:02 PM


Re: Still no Evidence
Hi, Marcosll. Welcome to EvC!
Try saying this to your pastor or congregation. I have: it doesn't go over very well.
Marcosll writes:
Remember, Noah lived 950 years. If you take the Ark story seriously you must take all the data seriously too. Noah had no offsping until he was 502. If you assume some of the data to be correct to try to debunk, then you must also factor in that time worked diferently somehow. How do current years relate to old years? How does that affect dating genetic bottlenecks?
This line of reasoning bothers me. Essentially, instead of assuming that humanity has changed or can change, this logic assumes that the whole world, or the flow of time, or even physics itself changes. Rocks don't get older deeper in the geologic column--radioactive decay rates change. Mutations don't accumulate--whole genomes decay rapidly over time. Peoples' skin color isn't the result of mutation or environment adaptation--magical curses account for that.
In general, the assumption is that processes of nature a few thousand years ago had to be extremely different from the way they are today in order to maintain harmony with the ancient Hebrew mythology. The common pro-ID argument is that scientists can't prove that X was the same in the past as it is today, so our theory is automatically just a bunch of assumptions. Of course, they can't prove that X was different in the past from what it is today, so this line of reasoning doesn't help them anymore than it hurts us.
Science generally avoids concepts such as "time worked differently" or "decay rates were different" until there is attainable evidence to support such ideas. And, until such processes can be proven to have occurred, ID is completely suspect. For the same logic, until a dramatic genetic bottleneck of 5 genomes is found in human history, there is no reason to believe that it occurred.
Marcosll writes:
Has anyone figured out why turtles used to live hundres of years until not too long ago? Why don't they live that long now? What does a 1000 year old turtle look like?
Who measured how old turtles lived in the past? I don't recall anyone having measured turtles' ages until the 1900's. Maybe it was because they thought turtles lived hundreds of years until somebody actually measured them and found them to be false.
Maybe Noah didn't know how to count "years". Maybe the word "year" used to mean "moon cycle," until after the Flood, when people started to use it for "sun cycle." If this is the case, Noah lived to be (950 "years"/12 months) = 79 years. That sounds reasonable to me. But, this belongs on a different thread, because it's off-topic here.

There was a point to this [post], but it has temporarily escaped the chronicler's mind. -modified from Life, the Universe and Everything, Douglas Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Marcosll, posted 03-31-2008 12:02 PM Marcosll has not replied

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2725 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 48 of 134 (492167)
12-29-2008 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Granny Magda
12-28-2008 10:29 PM


Re: Complex Issues Don't Need Simplistic Answers
Hi, Granny.
Granny Magda writes:
Nothing. Population levels are not an indicator of the antiquity of a civilisation.
That would make the United States civilization about five times older than Great Britain's, and about ten times older than Sweden's.
Don't you love what you can prove with creation science?

-Bluejay
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Granny Magda, posted 12-28-2008 10:29 PM Granny Magda has not replied

  
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