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Junior Member (Idle past 5849 days) Posts: 4 From: Ft Stewart Georgia Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Human Brain Evolution | |||||||||||||||||||||||
txchvs Junior Member (Idle past 5849 days) Posts: 4 From: Ft Stewart Georgia Joined: |
I am a regular on Christian Forums and I have debated the genetic differences between Humans and Chimpanzees endlessly. I am aquainted with many scientific publications on the subject and have a special interest in the development of the human brain from that of apes. My position is simply that the ape brain had neither the time for the means to develop into a modern human brain.
If this sounds like a topic of interest for these boards I will happily prepare a list of links and detailed specifics. I am willing and able to stick to exclusively scientific literature but also know the related theology and Scriptures. Grace and peace,Mark
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
The first part of this suggestion is so far off topic that no one should even think of replying. The second part about how genes evolve is possibly on topic depending upon the direction discussion takes. --Admin
It'd be interesting to know where evos think genes came from in the first place and how they evolve, if we are going to delve into your question. Edited by Admin, : Add off-topic note at top.
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txchvs Junior Member (Idle past 5849 days) Posts: 4 From: Ft Stewart Georgia Joined: |
Where they come from is largely a metaphysical question but how they evolve is straight forward enough. They evolve when the alleles, or alternative forms of the genes, increase in frequency, in populations over time. I don't know if that was a serious question but the answer was pretty easy.
Edited by txchvs, : Typos and such.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
The origin of genes is a metaphysical question? Really?
How they evolve......I think the issue has to be more specific. For example, do they evolve on their own, or in conjunction with natural selection and the environment? Is there a preset pattern governing what they can evolve into? If not, are there limits to their evolution? Should we expect anything predictive at all about gene evolution based on Darwinian theory? Do the facts match those predictions? Edited by randman, : No reason given.
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txchvs Junior Member (Idle past 5849 days) Posts: 4 From: Ft Stewart Georgia Joined: |
First of all the Darwinian answer would be gradually over time. That is not too far from the truth.
quote: Where they come from, why are they here, where are they going. Sounds like ontological questions to me.
quote: They evolve through various genetic mechanisms like recombination and gene expressions. Recently there has been a lot of research into the role of RNA. Natural Selection is the effect on the population not a real cause of evolution. Finally, the limits are the characteristics and effects of the genes themselves. I would say that random variation gets most of the credit rather then random mutations if that's what you are getting at.
quote: Only that they are slight, successive and gradually accumulated over vast periods of time. Do the facts match those predictions? Edited by txchvs, : Missed the last line of the original post.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3292 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
txchvs writes:
And my position is that baseball is a very popular sport in America.
My position is simply that the ape brain had neither the time for the means to develop into a modern human brain.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
The origin of genes is off-topic for this thread. Please keep discussion focused on human evolution.
First of all the Darwinian answer would be gradually over time. That is not too far from the truth. Where's the evidence for that?
Where they come from, So science cannot address how genes get here?
Only that they are slight, successive and gradually accumulated over vast periods of time. Do the facts match those predictions? No. At least, I haven't seen them. Maybe you can provide some evidence? Say, look at the theoritical common metazoan ancestor and the lineages that followed, or somewhere else? Edited by randman, : No reason given. Edited by Admin, : Add note at top.
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Larni Member (Idle past 164 days) Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: |
Hi txchvs, welcome to EvC.
You said you would be able to provide detailed specifics for your assertion: would you provide them?
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Wounded King Member Posts: 4149 From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Joined: |
Could you perhaps give us some details of the evidence which makes you doubt that the genetic changes between humans and chimps could have accrued over the time since they are thought to have diverged?
I'm very interested in both the role of non-coding genes and evolutionary changes in gene expression patterns so if you wish to focus on those I would be keen to discuss those areas. TTFN, WK
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
randman writes: No. At least, I haven't seen them. Maybe you can provide some evidence? Say, look at the theoritical common metazoan ancestor and the lineages that followed, or somewhere else? Evc Forum has science forums, religion forums, random-topic forums. You can discuss almost anything you like here, but we do request that you stay on topic in any given thread. If I continue to have to go around posting little "this is off-topic" notes at the top of your messages, then I'll suspend you. Please, no replies.
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Agobot Member (Idle past 5530 days) Posts: 786 Joined: |
quote: You are rather misinformed and ignorant of earth's history(like most of the religious people). Enjoy: 1. Plesiadapis - one of the oldest known primate-like mammal species which existed about 58-55 mya in North America and Europe Plesiadapis - Wikipedia 2. Aegyptopithecus - lived some 35-33 million years ago in the early part of the Oligocene epoch Aegyptopithecus - Wikipedia 3. Proconsul - an early genus of primates that existed from 27 to 17 million years ago during the Miocene epoch Proconsulidae - Wikipedia 4. After Proconsul you can use the following phylogenetic tree: Anthropology | Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History A nice diagram how we came to be(up to about 14mln years ago) Pagina non trovata – ICA- NET SRL If you want to dig further back into history, this is who set the beginning for our ape/human family(to the best that we know as of now): Eomaia - 125 million years ago Eomaia - Wikipedia Although it's hard to draw a line as to when an ape-like creature has turned into a man, i'd say that would be around 450 000 BC when fire was first discovered. So what gives you even the slightest idea that 58 million years is not enough time for an ape-like creature to evolve into a man? Or is it just a hunch? Please, save your efforts, and do not reference quotes from the bible, as they are pretty much worthless in any serious discussion. Edited by Agobot, : No reason given. Edited by Agobot, : No reason given. Edited by Agobot, : No reason given. Edited by Agobot, : No reason given. Edited by Agobot, : No reason given. Edited by Agobot, : No reason given. Edited by Agobot, : No reason given. Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.
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Blue Jay Member (Idle past 2698 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined: |
Agobot writes: So what gives you even the slightest idea that 58 million years is not enough time for an ape-like creature to evolve into a man? This wasn't his argument. He was arguing ape-to-man, not Plesiadapis-to-man. Behold:
txchvs writes: My position is simply that the ape brain had neither the time for [sic] the means to develop into a modern human brain. The word "ape" is reserved for Hominidae + gibbons. The word is not interchangeable with "monkey," nor with "primate." However, I think apes evolved in the Miocene, giving them a maximum of about 20 million years to evolve into modern humans. So, I agree with you that they had enough time. There was a point to this [post], but it has temporarily escaped the chronicler's mind. -modified from Life, the Universe and Everything, Douglas Adams
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Wounded King Member Posts: 4149 From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Joined: |
Just as some background there was a previous thread on this same topic, Genetics and Human Brain Evolution.
TTFN, WK
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Taz Member (Idle past 3292 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
As I suspected. This is a case of hit and run, hence my totally off the wall response.
Man, I'm getting good at this prophecy thing.
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