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Author Topic:   From chimp to man: it's as easy as 1, 2, 3!
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 61 of 128 (347255)
09-07-2006 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by pop
07-24-2006 12:45 AM


Pop is Suspended
This is plagerism. You were warned! A one week suspension this time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by pop, posted 07-24-2006 12:45 AM pop has not replied

  
fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5520 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 62 of 128 (347299)
09-07-2006 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Carico
12-12-2005 2:08 PM


Carico writes:
So again, how did apes breed human beings (or primates who haven't been found yet)?
One little change at a time.
And why isn't anything resembling a primate today prdoucing offspring that have turned into humans since the beginning of recorded history?
The evolution of a new species is a sequence of random events. to ask why something that happened isn't happening again is like asking why there is no lightning today striking the same spot where one did yesterday (depite the fact that there is no storm around today). The question makes no sense. Think about it. Is the fact that nobody is building huge stone pyramids anywhere in the world today a valid reson to believe that the egyptian pyramids couldn't have been built by humans? off course not. Is the fact that no human beings are evolving before your eyes today a valid reason to believe that extant human beings couldn't have evolved from different kind of primates? OFF COURSE NOT!!!

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 Message 54 by Carico, posted 12-12-2005 2:08 PM Carico has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Damouse, posted 10-10-2006 1:07 AM fallacycop has not replied

  
Damouse
Member (Idle past 4905 days)
Posts: 215
From: Brookfield, Wisconsin
Joined: 12-18-2005


Message 63 of 128 (355520)
10-10-2006 1:07 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by fallacycop
09-07-2006 2:04 PM


Pop scares me....
Id write a long respons to the monolithic block of c/p from pop, but it would be most painful. A summary is in order, and when he is back from his plagarism jail-time, i would like to ask him to summerize his major points.
I do believe that you said that mutations RARELY happen, but you later go on to say that mutations are seen everywhere, as with Down Syndrome. Forget that being a contradiction, you continue to profess a whole lot of either hidden knowledge or misinformation, as you hide behind quotes exclusively and never come out on a limb. You dont have a very scientific method in your analysis of mutations, as you ignore sources that say otherwise then your theory.
Such as this.
http://www.gate.net/~rwms/EvoMutations.html
Within our DNA, there exists the old copies, nonfunctional, or simply mutated genes that simply exist, with no real function. This itself is proof of evolution, as when part of the gene mutated for charecteristics that no longer profited us, the rest of the gene remained, but was rendered non-funtional. I havent read the article in a while, but i believe that there are actually almost more pseudogenes; non funtional bits of genes, then real genes.
Proof is here
http://papers.gersteinlab.org/e-print/sciam2/reprint.pdf
...aaaaand here.
Discover Financial Services
Notice the pictures of the mice. This one small gene change changed this mouse this much without killing it. A hundred of these small mutations and a new species emerges.
Your claim that all mutations are bad ones, and the listings of radiation exposure are fundementally flawed. Firstly, if a mutation that was bad for an animal happened, the animal would not live to spread its flawed genes to any appreciable amount of the population because that animal would die. but if ANY good mutation occured, a chance of one in a billionith for sure, that animal was almost assured to pass its good genes on, because that mutation would help it survive. One in a billion is a lot, but lets have a math moment.
Lets pretend there is an island out in the ocean populated by bunnies and other wildlife. Lets also say that there are about 50 million bunnies on this island, and that in ideal circumstances, predators kill half of the bunnies' offspring, which we will assume to be 6 per pair, for simplicity. The bunnies mate every two years like clockwork; and these bunnies die the year after they mate. As a final assumtion lets assume that any harmful mutation is included in the bunnies that die off, and that every billionth bunny there is a beneficial mutation. So to finish it off, every 2 years the bunnies get busy and produce 75 million new bunnies, which expands the population and creates the potential for mutation.
By the forth year, there have been 1.875 billion births, and therefor one good mutation in the entire fleet of bunnies. if we continue, by the 16th year there have been 3.5 billion births, and this number continues to increase exponentially, while so far in 16 years there have been three minor beneficial mutations for the bunnies.
This is obviously an enviroment with perfect conditions. The bunnies would not be so lucky in their protection from predators, nor their enormous island and numbers, and in the same light the time is increased from 16 years to hundreds of millions of years to compensate. Is this possible in the extended timeframe? yup. are you wrong? you betchya.
As to the claims of harmful mutations in chernobyl and Hiroshima, that is to be expected, and you have not done your homework. When exposed to radiation, the mutation rate of all of the cells in the body is increased enormously. During normal cell division mutations are redily expected because of the damage done by the radiation. As this happens, and changes that are beneficial are lost, as the changes happen in individual selective cells, not the reproductive cells or mutations in the reproductive event. Therefor any good changes, like acute hearing or greater muscle density are lost when the cell bearing the changes is a skin cell or a neuron. When that cell becomes cancerous because of radiation, the host WILL notice.
The effect of radiation on human DNA
Page not found | Washington State Department of Health
Edited by Damouse, : SP

-I believe in God, I just call it Nature
-One man with an imaginary friend is insane. a Million men with an imaginary friend is a religion.
-People must often be reminded that the bible did not arrive as a fax from heaven; it was written by men.
-Religion is the opiate of the masses

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by fallacycop, posted 09-07-2006 2:04 PM fallacycop has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Wounded King, posted 10-10-2006 2:45 AM Damouse has replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 64 of 128 (355525)
10-10-2006 2:45 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Damouse
10-10-2006 1:07 AM


Re: Pop scares me....
We haven't seen Pop here for quite some time. His suspension on this thread was only for a week. He is not currently suspended but has not posted on these forums since July.
So I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for him to get back to you.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Damouse, posted 10-10-2006 1:07 AM Damouse has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Damouse, posted 10-10-2006 5:41 PM Wounded King has not replied

  
Damouse
Member (Idle past 4905 days)
Posts: 215
From: Brookfield, Wisconsin
Joined: 12-18-2005


Message 65 of 128 (355707)
10-10-2006 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Wounded King
10-10-2006 2:45 AM


Re: Pop scares me....
i wasnt really responding to him and asking him to argue against my points, i was simply countering his argument for the sake of mine and for the life of the thread.

-I believe in God, I just call it Nature
-One man with an imaginary friend is insane. a Million men with an imaginary friend is a religion.
-People must often be reminded that the bible did not arrive as a fax from heaven; it was written by men.
-Religion is the opiate of the masses

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Wounded King, posted 10-10-2006 2:45 AM Wounded King has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by palehorse, posted 10-15-2006 10:33 AM Damouse has not replied

  
palehorse
Inactive Member


Message 66 of 128 (356655)
10-15-2006 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by Damouse
10-10-2006 5:41 PM


Re: Pop scares me....
http://www.darwinismrefuted.com/origin_of_species_05.html
http://www.scienceagainstevolution.org/v10i1f.htm
Hello there folks. I hail from many forums that are mostly politically orientated, and this subject comes up a-lot. These two links destroy evolution utterly. I dont know where we came from, but I know evolution is a joke.
I also find it interesting that some people play the religion card when trying to debate evolution, when there is clearly no need to at all. Science has already spoken. There are People that have imaginary friends on both sides. Evolution being perhaps the most absurd of the two.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Damouse, posted 10-10-2006 5:41 PM Damouse has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Archer Opteryx, posted 10-15-2006 10:42 AM palehorse has not replied
 Message 68 by AdminQuetzal, posted 10-15-2006 12:31 PM palehorse has replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3597 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 67 of 128 (356657)
10-15-2006 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by palehorse
10-15-2006 10:33 AM


Welcome to EvC, palehorse. You seem very confident of your point of view.
These two links destroy evolution utterly.
Or not.
There are People that have imaginary friends on both sides.
Evolution being perhaps the most absurd of the two.
I like that 'perhaps.'
Welcome, anyway.
_
Edited by Archer Opterix, : HTML.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by palehorse, posted 10-15-2006 10:33 AM palehorse has not replied

  
AdminQuetzal
Inactive Member


Message 68 of 128 (356680)
10-15-2006 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by palehorse
10-15-2006 10:33 AM


First Impressions
Hi Palehorse. Welcome to EvCForum. Unlike many other internet discussion forums, this one is fairly carefully moderated to insure that topics remain focused. We do this to insure that the discussions move forward (or as much as they can) efficiently. You are free to hold and express any opinion you'd care to - in the appropriate thread. Your first post on the forum was, unfortunately, both off-topic and in violation of the forum guidelines (Rule 2, "Please stay on topic for a thread. Open a new thread for new topics." and Rule 5, "Bare links with no supporting discussion should be avoided. Make the argument in your own words and use links as supporting references.")
I hope your stay with us will be enjoyable, and I wish you happy debating.

"Here come da Judge" - Flip Wilson
Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
  • General discussion of moderation procedures
  • Thread Reopen Requests
  • Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum
  • Proposed New (Great Debate) Topics
    New Members: Important threads to make your stay more enjoyable:
    Forum Guidelines, [thread=-19,-112], and [thread=-17,-45]

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 66 by palehorse, posted 10-15-2006 10:33 AM palehorse has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 69 by palehorse, posted 10-15-2006 1:07 PM AdminQuetzal has replied

      
    palehorse
    Inactive Member


    Message 69 of 128 (356686)
    10-15-2006 1:07 PM
    Reply to: Message 68 by AdminQuetzal
    10-15-2006 12:31 PM


    Re: First Impressions
    Ohh Im not going to endlessly debate a subject that only needs common sence to figure out. I just thought I would provide some info with regard to exactly what the thread topic is. It is my fault of course for not reading the rules. Im an admi on a conseravtive site as well as moding several others, so Im far to busy to stay here and keep re-posting facts to the evolutionists. The links I provided should (in a logical world) end this senceless debate. I'll wager the debate will continue however. In a way it is a left vs right sort of thing. Left-evolutionists refuse facts, while right bases its entire philosophy on fact. Have a good one.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 68 by AdminQuetzal, posted 10-15-2006 12:31 PM AdminQuetzal has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 70 by NosyNed, posted 10-15-2006 4:40 PM palehorse has not replied
     Message 73 by Nighttrain, posted 10-15-2006 11:01 PM palehorse has not replied
     Message 74 by AdminQuetzal, posted 10-16-2006 4:12 PM palehorse has not replied

      
    NosyNed
    Member
    Posts: 8996
    From: Canada
    Joined: 04-04-2003


    Message 70 of 128 (356726)
    10-15-2006 4:40 PM
    Reply to: Message 69 by palehorse
    10-15-2006 1:07 PM


    Re: First Impressions
    Well, PaleHorse, I had a read of the first page or so of your first site. My first impression is based on it's assertion of known falsehood s in such a short space. Since we don't debate web sites around here and you say you're not prepared to debate the issues yourself I'll just go with my first impression and presume that the rest of that site is as full of junk as it's first page or so.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 69 by palehorse, posted 10-15-2006 1:07 PM palehorse has not replied

      
    Wounded King
    Member
    Posts: 4149
    From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Joined: 04-09-2003


    Message 71 of 128 (356730)
    10-15-2006 5:26 PM


    Provocative first posts
    Just a quick straw poll, do people think you are more or less likely to actually have common sense if you can't actually spell 'common sence[sic]'?
    TTFN,
    WK

    Replies to this message:
     Message 72 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-15-2006 9:30 PM Wounded King has not replied

      
    Hyroglyphx
    Inactive Member


    Message 72 of 128 (356777)
    10-15-2006 9:30 PM
    Reply to: Message 71 by Wounded King
    10-15-2006 5:26 PM


    Re: Provocative first posts
    Just a quick straw poll, do people think you are more or less likely to actually have common sense if you can't actually spell 'common sence[sic]'?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 71 by Wounded King, posted 10-15-2006 5:26 PM Wounded King has not replied

      
    Nighttrain
    Member (Idle past 3993 days)
    Posts: 1512
    From: brisbane,australia
    Joined: 06-08-2004


    Message 73 of 128 (356794)
    10-15-2006 11:01 PM
    Reply to: Message 69 by palehorse
    10-15-2006 1:07 PM


    Re: First Impressions
    Nothing like having the courage of your convictions. Does that make you the 39th skater for the year whose sole contribution is 'Evolution has been thoroughly disproven'? Will we top 100 by the start of 2007? Stay tuned, folks.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 69 by palehorse, posted 10-15-2006 1:07 PM palehorse has not replied

      
    AdminQuetzal
    Inactive Member


    Message 74 of 128 (356897)
    10-16-2006 4:12 PM
    Reply to: Message 69 by palehorse
    10-15-2006 1:07 PM


    Drive By
    Ah well, since you have no intention of remaining with us, I won't waste time suspending you for a day.
    For all - please do not respond to palehorse in this thread. Not only are the links off-topic, but I will be forced to rule any further discussion of them on this thread grounds for a temporary time-out to allow everyone to re-read the forum guidelines.
    palehorse: I strongly urge you if you have any desire to remain on this board to a) read and heed the forum guidelines, and b) be prepared to comply with administrator requests. As an old friend of mine used to say in similar circumstances, "Every dog gets one bite. You just had yours."
    ANY COMMENTS ON THIS POST SHOULD BE TAKEN TO THE APPROPRIATE THREAD.
    Edited by AdminQuetzal, : No reason given.

    "Here come da Judge" - Flip Wilson
    Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
  • General discussion of moderation procedures
  • Thread Reopen Requests
  • Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum
  • Proposed New (Great Debate) Topics
    New Members: Important threads to make your stay more enjoyable:
    Forum Guidelines, [thread=-19,-112], and [thread=-17,-45]

  • This message is a reply to:
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    Archer Opteryx
    Member (Idle past 3597 days)
    Posts: 1811
    From: East Asia
    Joined: 08-16-2006


    Message 75 of 128 (357089)
    10-17-2006 2:20 PM
    Reply to: Message 8 by AdminNosy
    09-30-2005 7:01 PM


    Human evolution
    AdminNosy:
    This is going to be a fascinating area of research in the next decade. We are actually starting to piece together the jigsaw puzzle that offers a clue as to just how (in some detail) we may have evolved. Fun stuff!
    I'd be grateful for a thumbnail sketch from one of our specialists of where that research stands right now.
    One reads in the pop-sci press about specific finds but it's hard to divine the big picture from that. And the state of knowledge is rapidly changing. Web sites on this subject quickly go out of date.
    A brief rundown could help us ground the thread now, too. It's a good topic but the participation on this one has been unusually... mercurial.
    .

    Archer
    All species are transitional.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 8 by AdminNosy, posted 09-30-2005 7:01 PM AdminNosy has not replied

      
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