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Author Topic:   Difference between religion and science fora
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 76 of 81 (228762)
08-02-2005 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by Faith
08-01-2005 5:21 PM


Re: Staying on Topic
The "scale of tentativity" you are asking for is the evidence, Faith.
There is greater or lesser support for all scientific theories, so they are held and accepted by scientists with greater or lesser levels of tentativity.
That's why, if you want to discuss specific scientific claims, you need to do your homework and make the effort to educate yourself on what is known and not known.
Science, as I have said, deals in probabilities, not certainties. So, there is a sliding scale of tentativity, with things like common descent, the Earth orbiting the sun, and that matter is made of atoms being of very high probability and of low tentativity.
In addition, like I have said, it seems clear to me that you would benefit from aquainting yourself with the tenets of science.
Here are some good places to start. And please don't just reject them out of hand. Even if you do not accept the conclusions of science, at least make an effort to understand the scientific process.
short explanation of what science is

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Faith, posted 08-01-2005 5:21 PM Faith has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 77 of 81 (228773)
08-02-2005 10:07 AM


Proposal
Some Creationists would like to argue from a scientific perspective, while others would like to include religious arguments. By ruling religious arguments out of the science fora we force this latter type of Creationist to bring their religious arguments to the religious fora. This is causing scientific topics to be discussed in the religious fora, which doesn't appear to be working out all that well.
One possible resolution would be to require the OP in the science fora to specify whether religious arguments are to be permitted in the ensuing discussion. Creationists could propose topics for the science fora that permit them to use religious arguments (e.g., God or an IDer influenced evolution), but they would still have to provide evidence and reasoned arguments for their position.
Opinions?

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Jazzns, posted 08-02-2005 11:35 AM Admin has not replied
 Message 79 by Faith, posted 08-02-2005 11:46 AM Admin has not replied
 Message 81 by Jazzns, posted 08-02-2005 12:59 PM Admin has not replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3911 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 78 of 81 (228816)
08-02-2005 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Admin
08-02-2005 10:07 AM


Re: Proposal
I think your proposal would make things better. I have nothing wrong with your original explanation of it:
Percy writes:
There is not yet unanimity of opinion among moderators about the religious fora, but I've been arguing strongly that nonsense is nonsense no matter where presented, and that it should not permitted under any circumstances.
Participants should be required to support their points with argument and evidence as much in the religious fora as in the science fora. The difference is that religious arguments and religious evidence are permitted in the religious fora.
This is in stark contrast to what is actually being done as evidenced by:
Faith writes:
You objected first of all on the thread where we were invited to give our reasons for not accepting the ToE, in the Religion section, a context in which evidence should not be demanded at all.
I personally think it is just fine whichever way you decide to do it as long as it is actually moderated that way. NO matter what, arguments require support regardless if they are scientific.
This message has been edited by Jazzns, 08-02-2005 09:36 AM

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This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 79 of 81 (228822)
08-02-2005 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Admin
08-02-2005 10:07 AM


Re: Proposal
Unfortunately this conflict is not about religion at all. It's about my discussing scientific concepts by showing the absurdity of the prevailing view by pointing out the empirical factors that belie it. There is some illusion that I've been answered but I've answered the answers.
In any case, to call this a dispute between religion and science is to miss the point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Admin, posted 08-02-2005 10:07 AM Admin has not replied

Replies to this message:
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AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 80 of 81 (228825)
08-02-2005 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Faith
08-02-2005 11:46 AM


Suggestion.
If you believe what you have said then return to the Great Debate thread on Deposition and Erosion of Sediments. I will reopen it for your continued debate.

New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.
Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
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Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum
Other useful links:
Forum Guidelines, Style Guides for EvC and Assistance w/ Forum Formatting

This message is a reply to:
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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3911 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 81 of 81 (228856)
08-02-2005 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Admin
08-02-2005 10:07 AM


Re: Proposal
More examples of the pristine standards some people are being held to here. Faith characterizes her argument as 'unassailable'.
Message 276
This is all done in the name of the new fora. It is used as a place to sit and preach and get angry when someone......oh no.....debates you!
Really, if all they want is a place to rant they should go make a blog. This is a debate board, not a place to list creationist's rants.
This message has been edited by AdminJar, 08-02-2005 12:05 PM

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Home | American Civil Liberties Union (Protect Civil Rights)
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This message is a reply to:
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